Discontinuing FlickType Keyboard for iPhone
makecheck 2021-08-16 20:41:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
- Can I update my app inside your store? Fruit company: No.
- Can I find out why? Fruit company: No.
- Can I find out who or what makes this decision? Fruit company: No.
- Can I update my app outside your store? Fruit company: No.
- Can I contact my customers? Fruit company: No.
- Can I even identify my customers in order to help them? Fruit company: No.
- Can I directly give my own customers a refund? Fruit company: No.
- Can I be removed from your list of featured apps? Fruit company: No.
- Can customers prevent this one app from being auto-updated into brokenness? Fruit company: No.
- Can you tell customers that this new brokenness is your fault and not the developer’s? Fruit company: No.
And on, and on, and on, and on.
This is a completely absurd system that has never, ever, ever benefited customers or developers nearly as much as fruit companies.
Congress can’t act soon enough.
donmcronald 2021-08-16 21:58:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I think Ballmer got unfairly criticized for laughing at the iPhone. I always thought he looked at it and thought it was such a ridiculously bad deal for both developers and users that no one would adopt it. His biggest mistake was underestimating the ability for people to act in their own long term self interest.
ucosty 2021-08-16 23:34:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]
philliphaydon 2021-08-17 04:23:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
tonyedgecombe 2021-08-17 06:06:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Semaphor 2021-08-17 06:24:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Wasn’t it more that it never reached critical mass? Every time I read or hear about Windows Mobile, users seem to have loved it.
gumby 2021-08-17 00:29:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
That famous video of him laughing on TV was from the first announcement when there were no plans for an app store at all.
annexrichmond 2021-08-17 16:35:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
There was no App Store or any indication of a developer platform.
cglace 2021-08-16 23:15:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Enginerrrd 2021-08-17 00:15:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mananaysiempre 2021-08-17 12:32:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
cageface 2021-08-16 21:32:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]
IlliOnato 2021-08-16 21:42:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
seems to be relevant
ksec 2021-08-17 07:20:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
While I have lots of things I disagree with DHH, his point on App Store were spot on. It wasn't just about the commission, It was the company Basecamp has no relationship with its customers signing up via iOS. It only has it with Apple. And that is not how a business should work.
kuschkufan 2021-08-17 09:03:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
lucb1e 2021-08-16 23:30:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Marsymars 2021-08-17 00:26:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]
robocat 2021-08-17 01:07:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Also look at phones with Android One. Although in 2021 only Nokia is delivering phones for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One#2021
Marsymars 2021-08-17 03:07:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
llukas 2021-08-17 05:10:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]
As an user I'd prefer to interact with larger company that is not going anywhere rather than each developer separately. This has downsides as described in grandparent post but also increases trust a bit for unknown developers.
rob74 2021-08-17 08:22:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
For a user, the typical interaction with a large company is a nightmare of emails with stock replies that don't have anything to do with what you were asking, or hours spent on the phone; while interacting with individual developers (especially as a paying customer) is typically much less of a hassle.
dt2m 2021-08-17 00:41:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
add to this the fact that video recording on Android has a horrible rep for being blurry and blocky, staining the reputation further.
the time has come for legal action against Apple. this is textbook early-2000s MS behavior.
AnonC 2021-08-16 19:03:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I thought larger companies keep tabs on the "noisy and popular" ones in media (and social media) and would take more care not to annoy them further. But this story makes it seem like Apple has decided to just keep pushing his buttons as some sort of punishment.
I don't believe there's anyone capable in Apple top leadership who's spending any time in leading the App Store team appropriately. The scammy apps and the contrasting meaningless rejections of praiseworthy apps only tell one thing – the App Store is an abandoned space run by "bots" with almost no oversight.
As an Apple iDevice user for long, this story (from the beginning) as well as others have made me wish for alternate app stores on iDevices enforced through regulation. The wait has been too long already, and Apple isn't being the steward it imagines itself to be or portrays itself in media to be.
t00 2021-08-16 23:37:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
makeitdouble 2021-08-17 05:05:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It feels to me way more direct than trying to find alternatives that Google and Apple spend their time crushing away.
fsflover 2021-08-17 07:51:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fouc 2021-08-16 23:45:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
daveidol 2021-08-17 05:05:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]
llukas 2021-08-17 04:58:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I switched to iPhone recently but still thinking about getting one of above.
finneganscat 2021-08-17 03:34:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
NelsonMinar 2021-08-16 21:08:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Unlike iOS there's no complicated jailbreak required, I can't remember if you even have to enable developer mode (an easy supported thing). And there's a reasonable ecosystem of safe alternative app stores. F-Droid mostly, APKMirror also comes in handy for things that have disappeared.
I understand the value of a curated app store. I get the benefit of that too on Android! But it's nice to have an override in the cases it's needed.
Causality1 2021-08-16 21:43:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
phh 2021-08-16 22:29:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
That being said, there is one feature that is user hostile with regard to owning your software, it's contactless payment. Contactless payments all require stupid security requirements, that the community well knows how to circumvent (so it doesn't provide any actual security), but are pretty annoying for the user. I would guess Google isn't to blame there (even though GPay does have this anti-feature just like all other services, and Google being more monopolistic manage to make it even more annoying. But still insecure)
ajsnigrutin 2021-08-17 01:25:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
marcan_42 2021-08-17 04:04:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It's not surprising that making changes to an OS designed for delta updates and an immutable OS partition breaks updates. That's just how the technology works; the solution is to use an OS that is designed for that kind of use case. Root patches for original vendor OSes are never a particularly clean or secure experience.
ajsnigrutin 2021-08-17 09:25:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I'm just trying to say that rooting (and then updating) is not something you'd have your parents do by themselves.
marcan_42 2021-08-18 06:03:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mschuster91 2021-08-16 21:58:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
For Google's Pixel lineup, the situation is similar.
The really problematic stuff are Huawei (which can't be rooted at all with something trustable and open source such as Magisk), Xiaomi (these need to flash a custom recovery first, IIRC) and all the fly-by-night ops that don't have any kind of support other than hoping for a web/apk exploitable bug (I believe KingoRoot is using that method, but since it's closed source I wouldn't use it!).
Causality1 2021-08-16 22:19:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
GekkePrutser 2021-08-16 22:36:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Causality1 2021-08-16 22:41:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]
https://www.att.com/idpassets/images/support/wireless/Device...
GekkePrutser 2021-08-16 23:04:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I personally hardly use regular voice anymore. Some months I have 2 to 3 minutes, most of my calls are over WhatsApp or Teams :) I don't think I've had more than 10 minutes on my bill for years.
Also, 5G is coming and I hope they finally standardised the voice part well enough and don't make the same mistake as VoLTE. However I haven't really looked into that.
Causality1 2021-08-17 01:04:48 +0000 UTC [ - ]
GekkePrutser 2021-08-17 08:07:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
vzaliva 2021-08-17 02:32:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
stefan_ 2021-08-16 21:38:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If I need an utility app, I now just look for it on F-Droid. Need something to track AirPods charge? You can find the original open-source app for it on F-Droid, or download one of 100 ad-filled, GPL-breaking clones of it on Google Play.
LeoPanthera 2021-08-16 21:23:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
boudin 2021-08-16 21:49:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Totally ungoogled you won't have the google service layer, if you still want to use some proprietary apps, it is possible but some won't work. The biggest constraint is often push notifications not working.
As an alternative you can use microg [1] which is a client side re-implementation of google services. Some part uses alternative service as backend, some will use google though, like push notifications.
Side loading can have its limitations has you need to find sources for APK that you can trust.
The best non google store is f-droid [2] in my opinion, all open source and build reproducible.
If you need some proprietary apps from google store, you can use the client Aurora Store [3] which still sources app from google play store.
In term of buying a phone with most of that, /e/ does sell phones with android + microg + their own store [4]
Otherwise plenty of phones allow to easily replace the operating system. You can look for phones supported by lineageos which comes with no google apps. [5]
[1] https://github.com/microg [2] https://f-droid.org/ [3] https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraStore [4] https://e.foundation/ [5] https://lineageos.org/
GekkePrutser 2021-08-16 22:38:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It's not as good as micro g or a completely ungoogled phone but the benefit is you can use manufacturer roms with all security features like bootloader locking turned on.
I do this with my OnePlus as I don't like leaving the bootloader unlocked. Anyone can pull a disk image off it through recovery then.
Another benefit of this is that Google play services like location and push still work, they don't require an account. But you do give up extra privacy compared to the other options.
There are grapheneos and calyx which do allow bootloader locking but they only work on pixel phones and those are really poor value for money IMO (expensive but still having fingerprint on the back, midrange soc etc). And really hard to get in Europe now. The 5a 5G is not coming here and probably the 6 isn't either.
So this is why I ended up with this option. At least Android has a wide spectrum of choices. With Apple it's take it or leave it.
boudin 2021-08-17 07:05:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
altantiprocrast 2021-08-17 19:02:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Apps that support it: https://unifiedpush.org/users/apps/
donmcronald 2021-08-16 22:13:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]
GekkePrutser 2021-08-16 23:10:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]
They're coming back from that now because nobody wanted it but I don't doubt they still want to create their own walled garden. It's free money off app sales, control that gives them leverage over their customers and develops, data which they love (they're always pushing telemetry).
I don't really see what's in it for them to make a really open store.
ThatPlayer 2021-08-16 23:38:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Look at Amazon App Store, and it's failed Fire Phone. Amazon has cornered the market on low-end tablets with it and people still try and install Google Play Store on it. And according to Epic's lawsuit, Google has been actively preventing hardware manufacturers from packaging alternative app stores with products.
Marsymars 2021-08-17 00:30:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Also the Huawei AppGallery outside of China since they lost access to Google apps.
dylan604 2021-08-17 00:07:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
LeoPanthera 2021-08-16 23:49:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ttctciyf 2021-08-16 21:41:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Here's one page about it, I'm sure there are plenty more.
pomian 2021-08-17 10:28:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rchaud 2021-08-16 21:46:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
throwawayboise 2021-08-16 21:41:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
abawany 2021-08-16 23:06:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]
NathanielK 2021-08-16 21:39:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]
itslennysfault 2021-08-16 17:21:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]
tacker2000 2021-08-16 21:25:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
These days I doubt I would create anything for iOS anymore, since the risk of getting banned over some nonsense without any recourse whatsoever is just too big and I just dont want to deal with losing my precious time and money. There are better alternatives, like the web, etc.
Unfortunately macOS will be going down that path soon, once they remove the ability to install from any source (and they will do it, no doubt).
It’s a real shame.
tonyedgecombe 2021-08-17 06:15:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
People have been saying that for ten years now and it hasn't happened yet.
fatnoah 2021-08-16 17:28:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
weimerica 2021-08-16 19:54:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mission_failed 2021-08-17 01:05:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mdoms 2021-08-16 20:52:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
banana_giraffe 2021-08-16 21:29:48 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Some variation of this happened three times. Eventually the level of stupid was too much for me to handle, and on the third time, I just pulled the app rather than resubmit things.
tonyedgecombe 2021-08-17 06:19:48 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I prefer the platform but there is no way I'm going to sign up for an abusive relationship with Apple.
black_puppydog 2021-08-16 23:04:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
We've all let these projects die of starvation, and now we keep having these threads but frankly none of the big two platforms have to be afraid people might flock away. Maybe to the other big platform, until they flock back during the next brouhaha...
weikju 2021-08-17 00:49:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]
post_break 2021-08-16 19:53:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]
qzw 2021-08-16 20:17:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
g_p 2021-08-16 21:43:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
> If developers reduce their use of the Company’s platforms, including in-app purchases, then the volume of sales, and the commission that the Company earns on those sales, would decrease. If the rate of the commission that the Company retains on such sales is reduced, or if it is otherwise narrowed in scope or eliminated, the Company’s financial condition and operating results could be materially adversely affected.
This does feel like the kind of situation that few would want to be at the helm of, if blame was to be passed around in the event of an adverse approach being taken.
There's now a number of international regulators all looking at Apple and the competition aspects of their App Store model, and legislators in the US seem to claim to have bi-partisan support as well on the point. If individuals feel they might be blamed, that might explain why nobody wants to step up and improve things.
bsder 2021-08-16 21:25:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The primary issue is that any solution to App Store "problems" means reduced profitability. So, quite simply, nobody is going to pass that up the management chain.
Sure, Apple gets a PR bruise, but they know that everybody is locked into their iOS ecosystem, so who cares?
"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." https://vimeo.com/355556831
WeDontCare 2021-08-17 04:11:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
"We don't care. We don't have to. We're Apple."
vbezhenar 2021-08-16 20:57:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Razengan 2021-08-16 21:48:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
GekkePrutser 2021-08-16 23:12:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Marsymars 2021-08-17 00:34:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]
This actually ties into the foremost reason I don't use an iPhone. I'm a Dvorak user for 20+ years and have no ability to use QWERTY, or any interest in learning. iOS doesn't have a Dvorak option for the first-party keyboard, and every third-party keyboard I've tried with a Dvorak option is glitchy in ways that make them effectively unusable. (e.g. the system QWERTY keyboard will sometimes come up for OS-level events.) So, I use an Android phone.
salamandersauce 2021-08-17 03:02:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Wowfunhappy 2021-08-17 01:16:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I'd have expected that to be added in iOS 3 at the latest. (I'd say at launch, but then it did take until iOS 3 to get copy and paste.)
Marsymars 2021-08-17 03:13:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Wowfunhappy 2021-08-17 03:32:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I don't know, it's just broadly weird to me that it isn't there. They have tons of keyboard layouts for different languages built in, why not Dvorak?
MBCook 2021-08-16 17:07:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
finneganscat 2021-08-17 03:37:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mortenjorck 2021-08-16 20:17:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]
wsc981 2021-08-16 21:58:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
GekkePrutser 2021-08-16 23:16:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If I can get the same game on Steam and GOG I will always pick the latter.
qzw 2021-08-16 20:25:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]
GekkePrutser 2021-08-16 23:18:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Not that Fire OS or its store is very good but they have the infrastructure.
qzw 2021-08-17 02:40:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
GekkePrutser 2021-08-17 08:04:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
HomeDeLaPot 2021-08-17 00:12:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]
yarcob 2021-08-16 18:06:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I'm sure Apple has their reasons for blocking this app, but I'd prefer a world where customer choices what apps they can use don't depend on the whims of a very secretive company.
wsc981 2021-08-16 22:01:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Perhaps, but I found this Tweet interesting:
> App Review problems & broken APIs isn't even all. The broader relationship Apple has with keyboard developers is hostile, as my decade of relevant experience can confirm. And it's not just my own assessment: the former head of keyboards at Apple has admitted to this hostility.
I'd like to know more about Apple's hostility towards keyboard devs.
tyingq 2021-08-16 23:35:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
https://twitter.com/kocienda/status/1273732626331791360?lang...
tonyedgecombe 2021-08-17 06:24:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
passivate 2021-08-16 22:51:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
klyrs 2021-08-16 20:18:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
hexis 2021-08-16 22:29:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mdoms 2021-08-16 20:50:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]
p2t2p 2021-08-17 07:42:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Because for me as a user everything else is even worse. Generally nowadays _everything_ is pile of crap in some way or another, Apple's is just a pile that stinks for me a little less.
Mobile alternative my recent Android phone from Motorola (Moto 5G Plus):
- I haven't seen ROM update in a while and
- Unremovable hidden Facebook services binaries in the very core of the OS (de-bloater from F-Droid dealt with it)
- Facebook pre-installed
- No mail client (no, Gmail doesn't count)
- No caldav client (purchase for 15 AUD in Google Play, comes stock on every Apple device)
- No cardav client (purchase for 15 AUD in Google Play, comes stock on every Apple device)
- No way to stop apps running in background
- Absolute barrage of notifications about features I don't care about that won't go away until I click them.
- Absolutely idiotic approach to photos where every app lists _every_ image on the device in photos. My 100gb music collection with folder images simply crashes most gallery apps.
- The amount of ads is just staggering compared to iOS
- No ad-blocking in the browser (Safari on iOS provides a framework, you install an app and you don't see ads anymore, I was unpleasantly surprised when I tried surfing the web in Chrome on that Moto phone)
- Google Photos simply blocks the screen with suggestion to back up everything to the cloud on each launch and I have to dismiss every time.
OS Alternative:
- Linux - good luck making 4k scree snappy and god forbid you have your laptop monitor with different scaling settings
- Linux - general hardware support is meh, had huge troubles with my wifi printer
- Linux - convenience apps - like photo gallery and stuff, almost none - there are either too simple apps or monstrous combine harvesters.
- Linux - public wifis is still a trouble, getting to those login portals is flakey, sometimes you get there automatically, sometimes you have to figure out yourself how to get there.
- Linux - good luck finding a decent email client. Best I could do is neomutt + notmuch but Apple's Mail achieves the same setup I had there in 5 minutes of clicking instead of couple days of tweaking configs.
- Linux - still comes to a halt when I'm trying to copy a 10GB file somewhere.
- Windows: spyware-as-a-service
- Windows: no native unix tools, only through a layer of virtualisation
- Windows: terminal emulator still sucks and slow af, see "refterm" by Casey Muratori.
- Windows: convenience apps nearly impossible to find (on Apple platform you get full office suite, video editor, photo library solutions, music making thingy, etc, etc for free).
- Widows: usability choices suck, like hibernating my surface sometime after I lock the screen so I have to wait good 10 - 20 seconds for it to wake up when I need it. Had to hack something in registry to get "old" power controls back to remove that crap.
- Windows: email clients _all_suck_, the last half-decent client was Outlook 2010. (Well, Thunderbird is ok-ish)
- Windows: still no caldav, no cardav (you can hack shit together by going iCloud road and replacing URLs in buil-in clients)
EDIT(s):
%s/worth/worse
%s/have seen ROM/haven't seen ROM
arepublicadoceu 2021-08-17 10:43:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
> No way to stop apps running in background
Its been three years since I used Androids but there was absolutely a way to kill / freeze background Apps
> No ad-blocking in the browser (Safari on iOS provides a framework, you install an app and you don't see ads anymore, I was unpleasantly surprised when I tried surfing the web in Chrome on that Moto phone)
Adblocking is what I hate the most on iOS and what will probably drive me away from the platform. Good luck finding anything remotely as useful as ublock origin on Apple (No, no amount of content blocking apps can deliver the granularity of uBlock, if you want an example, try blocking youtube ads lately)
> Absolutely idiotic approach to photos where every app lists _every_ image on the device in photos. My 100gb music collection with folder images simply crashes most gallery apps.
You probably never heard of the ".nomedia" flag right? You can easily prevent any image from going into gallery apps by appending this file to a folder like Music folder.
While were re still on the topic of music management. Messing with iTunes to manage my music library makes me die a little bit inside every time.
> Absolute barrage of notifications about features I don't care about that won't go away until I click them.
Ha, one thing that I miss the most about android was that I could fine control my notifications to an OCD level. Apple is getting better on iOS 15 but its still not as great as my android experience from 3 years ago.
…
My bottom line is, I left the Android world not because I hated the system but because I thought that apple was championing privacy and I wanted to support this goal. I dealt with every iOS limitations just because of the privacy propaganda, but now that it’s all over? I will go back to android. At least I have some degree of freedom if I can’t have privacy anyway.
p2t2p 2021-08-17 15:58:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
> Its been three years since I used Androids but there was absolutely a way to kill / freeze background Apps
I mean that in iOS is have a toggle in Settings as to which apps are allowed to run in background at all. This toggle is turned off for everything like Twitter and others dodgy apps.
> You probably never heard of the ".nomedia" flag right?
It is still marked as a bug in their bag tracker AFAIR so that doesn't count. The solution need to be better/smarter/easier customisable.
> privacy
Yeah, with the recent move it went out the window.
For everything else - I acknowledge your preference =)
loehnsberg 2021-08-17 08:00:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
jareds 2021-08-16 17:27:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
p2t2p 2021-08-17 07:43:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
A little more of crap like from all of the involved - Google, Facebook, Apple, doesn't matter, they are digging their own graves here.
40four 2021-08-16 22:45:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
znpy 2021-08-16 21:35:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
And I know that such things happen on Android too.
The things is, apple/Google is a duopoly and the app market needs to be regulated.
To people going through this kind of issue, I say: you chose to be in that position, bring Apple to court or just close your business.
saagarjha 2021-08-16 22:33:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
znpy 2021-08-17 22:48:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I'm really glad they did and I'm rooting for them.
Regarding people suffering... It takes suffering to realize that the current situation is not right.
yunohn 2021-08-18 09:55:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I’m always confused by these statements. Would you rather nobody develop apps for iOS/Android, because they had the same amazing foresight as you, and decided to not beholden to Apple/Google?
mthoms 2021-08-16 21:47:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Most people don't know this but the "Parent" (read:credit card holder) of a family sharing account can't see, let alone cancel, any subscriptions a minor on the account has purchased.
Let that sink in for a second. Apple will happily charge the parents' credit card a weekly recurring fee but there is nowhere in their interface (on device nor on the web) where the parent can even see that subscription.[0]
Apple expects the child to go into their interface and cancel the recurring subscription. Something many (most?) adults find confusing. In my case, the child just deleted the App when the trial was over. Which is of course perfectly logical thinking. No bueno.
So if the child is away at school (as in my case), or the phone gets left at a friend's house, or worse... stolen. The only way to get it cancelled is to call them.
There's more to this story, including details on how the built in parental controls are intentionally crippled (IMHO) but I've got to run. In summary: The entire "Family Sharing" system is built to rip off people while still maintaining plausible deniability.
[0] A senior Apple rep told me this is for privacy reasons. But two things: the minor should have no expectation of privacy when spending their parents money (how is that a good thing?). And secondly, Apple does email a receipt for the subscription to the card holder... so the privacy excuse was pure bullshit. In my case I missed the email because I have more than 6 or 7 recurring Apple subscriptions. I do take partial blame because of that. But I've still not been given a good reason why a parent can't easily cancel a childs subscription.
dumpsterdiver 2021-08-16 22:54:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I called Apple support today for an unrelated issue and verified that what you say is true. That truly is egregious that they're hiding that information, and you have to notice it via your bank statement. At the very least the primary account holder should be able to see that an unspecified member of their family account has a subscription to an unspecified service, and have the ability to summarily cancel it. It's not unheard of to imagine that even with the "Ask me first" feature enabled to allow members to make purchases, you might accidentally click yes while trying to click something else - I've unintentionally answered incoming calls that way. Granted, there's likely a confirmation prompt, but between having your fingers fly across the screen from muscle memory, and having FaceID enabled - it seems like even with a confirmation prompt it would still be possible to inadvertently approve purchases.
donmcronald 2021-08-16 22:07:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
1. About 5 prompts every time a child wants to "buy" something including free stuff.
2. An absolute free for all where a child can have unlimited spend.
Competing app stores would have a MUCH better family sharing setup with proper budgets and controls. Microsoft gets the money end of it right, but sucks at the actual app sharing. Google can't even make their gift cards work properly.
We need app store competition.
GoOnThenDoTell 2021-08-16 22:55:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]
danbmil99 2021-08-16 23:53:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ben_w 2021-08-17 08:18:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
alisonkisk 2021-08-17 01:01:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Wowfunhappy 2021-08-17 01:09:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]
tonyedgecombe 2021-08-17 06:00:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If you think the App Store is bad now I think you will be in for a surprise once it is opened out.
ben_w 2021-08-17 08:24:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
That said, I expect that a month after the alt stores open, many of the same American lawmakers currently complaining about Apple will suddenly start complaining about how non-American stores don’t give so much as a wet fart what American lawmakers think. (The non-American lawmakers also complaining about Apple are likely to be in favour of this, given at worst the alt store is doing the status quo while at best they're now a local business).
smoldesu 2021-08-17 15:38:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Loic 2021-08-17 06:39:48 +0000 UTC [ - ]
As a side note, the parental control stuff on an Android phone are also really bad if you want to help your kids to learn how to cope with the addictive apps while preventing them to fall on really bad content.
A simple stuff, you cannot easily group all the addictive apps together and say "2h max of them in a day".
[0]: https://f-droid.org/
ksec 2021-08-17 06:58:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
That is precisely why all the games are Ad based with subscription option. These Ad based Games offer 1 min of Game play and 30sec of Ads and . These Ads are also showing games the kids might like, so they go to download this new game which Apple gets to come up with new download or installation milestone. The new games are also ad based with subscription, showing ads that..... until you hit subscription.
And the great things about these Subscription is that are so cheap, so they can easily pile up without getting noticed. And this example is only the tip of the iceberg. All these changes came after they announced their Services Strategy in 2015.
It is literally impossible to convince Apple Fans there are any wrong doing of Apple. Go to Macrumors or 9to5 comments you will see Apple Apologist working there 24/7. But A lot of people are starting to question, if Apple were really doing what they said were doing.
And I mean if you are starting to doubt, you may finally understand why I have been saying Apple reeks of hypocrisy for the past few years. ( I have comparatively little to no problem with Steve Jobs's Apple )
btown 2021-08-17 05:21:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I'm actually somewhat surprised that legislators haven't tried to regulate this. The cynical part of me says that if legislators don't have kids or grandkids who are spending too much of their money on app stores, they either don't have kids or are too wealthy to care, either of which would make them grossly out of touch with their constituents...
ramshanker 2021-08-17 01:11:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mthoms 2021-08-17 03:43:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
teitoklien 2021-08-17 04:23:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
addicted 2021-08-17 03:55:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Now, I’m not actually sure this works for the Apple case because I believe Apple bundles all your purchases and charges your credit card once a day or once a month?
fossuser 2021-08-17 03:12:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mthoms 2021-08-17 03:42:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The feature called (as you say) "Ask to buy" is not what the name implies. It's actually "Ask to download anything, including free stuff".
You end up turning it off after being interrupted 5 times a day to approve free stuff. Many are free games, some are even apps needed for school (the Apps needed for school are sometimes time sensitive - if I don't approve it within a few hours it can be a problem).
This is what I alluded to with the "plausible deniability" comment. Apple can say we have an "Ask to buy" feature but they cripple[0] the feature so as to make most parents turn it off.
[0] I'll leave it up to the reader to decide whether this is intentional or not. Based on the dark patterns present, I personally think it's 100% intentional.
I wrote to Tim about it. Never heard back. Wasn't surprised.
banana_giraffe 2021-08-17 04:42:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
elliekelly 2021-08-17 05:29:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
vxNsr 2021-08-17 06:03:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mthoms 2021-08-17 08:00:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
hellweaver666 2021-08-17 06:49:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It’s really not that difficult to communicate with your kids and then this kind of problem goes away.
mthoms 2021-08-17 07:57:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I’ve since cleared all this up with him but that’s not even the point.
The point is Apple was charging me (weekly) without providing the means to even see what I was paying for nor the ability to cancel it.
It was $10 /week for a ringtone app ($520 per year) which is a blatantly obvious scam. The app had a “3 day” trial which requires the child to cancel 24 hours before the trial period ends.
In reality, that is a two day trial. How they can legally call that a three day trial is beyond me.
It’s a scam, plain and simple. They should be ashamed.
fossuser 2021-08-17 03:55:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
There should definitely be something just for stuff that charges your card.
fouc 2021-08-16 23:41:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
jasonjayr 2021-08-17 00:29:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
dylan604 2021-08-16 23:57:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Wowfunhappy 2021-08-17 04:13:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fouc 2021-08-17 07:05:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
alisonkisk 2021-08-17 01:03:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]
dylan604 2021-08-17 02:31:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
However, I don't give damn who you are. If I did not personally provide you my credit card information, I did not give you permission to use it. If I did not remember to update my info, then shut down my account and make it obvious. What ever this service is, it needs to go away.
qzw 2021-08-17 04:22:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
dylan604 2021-08-17 18:06:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
To outright cancel an account would be bad.
mthoms 2021-08-17 03:46:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I'll give them credit for that, but I feel like they use the fact that chargebacks are easy to make themselves feel better about all the dark patterns.
smoldesu 2021-08-16 22:23:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Spend $500 on in-app-purchases? Your parents aren't even allowed to know, since you're such a vulnerable little person. Privacy is a human right, you know!
Leave it to Apple to find the most ironic contradictions.
dang 2021-08-17 19:19:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
jolux 2021-08-16 23:40:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Only if you choose to view it, from a prompt that tells you it will notify them if you do.
jackson1442 2021-08-17 00:30:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
73r7fudhdjduru 2021-08-16 22:23:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mthoms 2021-08-17 03:51:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
But thanks for your thoughtful and measured contribution.
alisonkisk 2021-08-17 01:02:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ribosometronome 2021-08-17 01:08:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]