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Ford Mustang Mach-E Was Norway’s Best-Seller in May – Report

JoshTko 2021-08-16 16:44:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The implication of this headline is wrong. In June '21 Model E sold 1,277 and Model 3 sold 3,196. Tesla just has lumpy distribution volumes. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/07/03/norways-plugin-ev-share...

NotSammyHagar 2021-08-16 16:48:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Yeah thanks, saved me from posting the same thing. Tesla batches up their orders for many smaller countries like in Europe, this has been true for years, and it's also the source of probably hundreds of articles about how Tesla is getting beaten by some recently introduced car. It's great that other companies are having some success with selling EVs, remember that's actually Tesla's corporate goal. Tesla still has a widely appealing set of vehicles.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 17:28:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Except Tesla bunches their orders so that they can claim improving numbers every 3 months (with 2-months having crap numbers), rather than averaging out their deliveries like everyone else.

Having 2-crap months per quarter + 1-good month is 100% Tesla's decision. They could just smooth out the numbers like everyone else instead and be comparable on apples-to-apples terms. But Tesla prefers to be funky with numbers.

It probably would be a lot less stressful for Tesla's employees if Tesla stopped doing this "Quarter-end push" all the time. Its unnecessary. Its like watching a Marathon runner sprint every few hundred meters rather than pacing himself from beginning to end so that he can gather the excitement of the crowds.

_ph_ 2021-08-16 17:32:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]

No, the reason is different. Wheter it makes sense or not, Tesla tries to optimize the deliveries per quarter. That means, it tries to deliver all vehicles built within the same quarter. With most vehicles sold in Europe being built in the US, this means that they are build in the first half of the quarter, then shipped to and delivered in Europe towards the end of the quarter. The consequence is, they barely sell cars in the first month of the quarter and most in the last month.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 17:36:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]

https://electrek.co/2021/06/18/elon-musk-tesla-employees-go-...

This "end of quarter push" is 100% Tesla weirdness. Its part of Tesla's work culture.

> The consequence is, they barely sell cars in the first month of the quarter and most in the last month.

Or they could smooth it out and cause far less stress for their workforce and customers. This game they play means that customers get cancelled cars and shifting delivery dates and a worse handoff as they pickup their cars.

-------------

As part of their weird "quarter end push" thing, they also time their delivery ships to reach Europe at certain points and "burst" their numbers in an all out sprint, coinciding with the rest of their quarter-end pushes. Its all just number games and "burstiness" to impress the crowds and generate numbers... when the core business should be caring about smooth rollouts and increasing average rates.

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 17:56:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I think it would be more accurate to say it is too early to have meaningful statistics, not that it is wrong. The Mach-E only recently went on sale in Norway, and given Tesla's uneven delivery schedule the only meaningful comparison is average/month. YTD would work starting in 2022.

nso 2021-08-16 15:43:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The number of fossil fuel driven Mustangs (except for classics) may be in the ~single digits (hyperbole) in Norway due to the taxes based on total weight of the vehicle, and emissions of CO2 and NOx. It would be an indulgence for the very affluent.

The Mach-E gives the common Norwegians access to the famed American Comfort Car (c/tm) without having to break the bank, as power prices are relatively low in Norway and gas prices are very high.

Milner08 2021-08-16 16:20:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]

This is bizarre but, I at least, in the UK wouldn't consider 'Ford' an American brand as we often get quite different Ford's to the ones sold in the US (Even when the name is the same, they often look totally different like the Focus). I know that's wrong, but its just the way it is. (Although Mustang is the exception to that).

I feel like when most people think of American Cars they think of big GM's, etc and at least in the UK they are not really are really famed for comfort, instead they were always famed for handling badly and having terrible MPG. Now don't get me wrong, I know the US has some great cars, but I think the markets are very different and the ones that have been available to us have been awful, expensive, or both.

My point is, I don't think people are buying the Mach-E cause its an opportunity to try the 'famed American Comfort Car' but more because its a good option for an electric car, and that's what a lot of people in Europe want when buying brand new cars now.

TMWNN 2021-08-16 20:31:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]

>This is bizarre but, I at least, in the UK wouldn't consider 'Ford' an American brand

I think a lot of people are missing what you mean by the above. Ford has been in Britain and Ireland for a century. Multiple generations have driven Fords and have worked at the Dagenham plant and at the former Cork plant, built aircraft engines during WW2 there. Ford's raises were used to determine raises for other industries (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent#Ford_nego...>); that's how much Ford was seen as a "native" company. The 2010 film Made in Dagenham (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Dagenham>), about a notable strike in British labor history, is called that because it occurred at the Ford plant.

ilamont 2021-08-16 16:59:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Even when the name is the same, they often look totally different like the Focus

When I lived in the UK in the 90s I was surprised to see "Ford Granada" meant a modest four-door passenger car not unlike a Camry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Granada_(Europe)#/media/F...) compared to the hulking, chrome-fronted US beast I drove in high school (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Granada_(North_America)#/...)

tonyedgecombe 2021-08-17 06:32:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The Ford Granada was a comparatively large car. At one company I worked for the engineers drove Escorts, the salesmen (it was all men) drove Cortinas and the managers drove Granadas.

kbenson 2021-08-16 16:47:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> I at least, in the UK wouldn't consider 'Ford' an American brand as we often get quite different Ford's to the ones sold in the US (Even when the name is the same, they often look totally different like the Focus).

Are you sure that's not old info? I know there used to be major differences (which was obvious if you watched World Rally back in the day, since you couldn't get one of those Ford Focus models in the US), but I had heard they were consolidating some, so looked it up. According to Wikipedia[1], about a decade ago Ford started consolidating it's US and UK models, and now I think maybe beyond a couple variations only being available in one are, they are mostly the same. (It also notes they closed 3 of their factories in Europe). For the Focus specifically, they unified the models in 2011[2].

That said, even if Ford is or was building European specific versions in Europe, I wouldn't consider that any more a UK car company and less a US car company that I would consider Honda and Toyota any less Japanese car companies and more US even through they have many plants in the US and significant portions of their cars and materials are built here to get around import tariffs. They have significant portions of their companies housed here, and US divisions doing R&D in some cases, but those are definitely Japanese companies.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_of_Europe#2011%E2%80%93pr...

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus#Third_generation_(C...

Brakenshire 2021-08-16 17:14:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Many of the smaller Ford cars seem to be designed by the European subsidiary and then either exclusively sold in Europe or later sold in America, for instance the Kuga which is now being sold as the Escape in the USA. Ford obviously aspired to unify across the two markets, but the differences between them are so large it doesn’t seem practical for most of their range. Ford in the USA seems to make most of their money from pickup trucks, with the Mustang brand as a significant extra, and both of those are negligible here. And now there’s enormous pressure from the European efficiency standards, so that Ford is licensing some EVs from VW. I wouldn’t be surprised if the European division was sold off like GM with Opel.

kbenson 2021-08-16 17:46:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> Many of the smaller Ford cars seem to be designed by the European subsidiary and then either exclusively sold in Europe or later sold in America

Yes, as in 2011 when they unified their UK and US markets. That is, a decade ago. My understanding is that at that point you could get the same models in both areas, for the most part (this is when the US finally gor access to the sport models of the Focus, like the RS). The Mondeo came over earlier, in 2006 (as the Fusion).

The Ford Fusion (Mondeo in the UK, but functionally identical from what I can tell) outsold the Mustang 2:1 in the US in 2019 and 2020. Ford does sell more SUVs and trucks than cars, and also stopped selling many cars in the US 2020 (and some more, including the Fusion), but even the Ford Fiesta sold similar numbers (if still less) than the Mustang.

> Ford obviously aspired to unify across the two markets, but the differences between them are so large it doesn’t seem practical for most of their range.

Before everything started changing in 2020 (Ford is pulling out of the car market in the US except for select models), what models were UK specific? That is, not just a name difference?

Prior to 2011 there seemed to be major differences, and after 2019 there are obviously major differences, but it feels like people here are ignoring almost a decade of history just so they can justify the old perceptions they had which weren't accurate during that time.

Brakenshire 2021-08-16 19:08:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> Before everything started changing in 2020 (Ford is pulling out of the car market in the US except for select models), what models were UK specific?

The Puma is Europe-specific and was launched in 2019.

I don't understand the case you're making, as you say Ford is killing off in the US almost all the vehicles that make up their existing market share in Europe. The point I was trying to make is the company is fundamentally split because of the different nature of the markets. FCA had the same issue.

kbenson 2021-08-17 19:46:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]

My point was that both the original statement by the GGGGP "we often get quite different Ford's to the ones sold in the US" and yours of "exclusively sold in Europe or later sold in America" were for the most part only really accurate pre-2011. That the names were different in the different markets isn't really relevant in my opinion, as while there were major differences in the past that accurately describe those statements, that situation wasn't really true for a decade (for the most part, this is somewhat less accurate given information I found after I wrote this part, see below), until very recently, and the recent situation doesn't really match them either (where they've stated their desire to sell almost not cars and focus on trucks entirely in the US).

I just thought it was worth pointing out that the perception didn't seem to match reality on those points, and for an extended period of time, as they seemed to more closely describe the pre-2011 period.

That said, I've looked into this more, and there was some split during that period, from what I can see, just not in the direction from Europe to the US, and not in any of the models people are bringing up like that. The Mustang wasn't offered in the UK as a right hand drive model until 2015, and I'm not sure the Taurus ever was. I still think people's perception of this is slightly doscordant with the reality for a large chunk of time that's being ignored, but I'll readily admit at this point that it wasn't quite as unified as I was presenting.

cbm-vic-20 2021-08-16 19:53:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]

As an American, I would gladly buy a Mondeo Estate if it had AWD 2.5T engine, like a stealth WRX. Unfortunately, Ford is probably correct in their assessment that Americans don't want anything other than C/SUVs and trucks.

OldHand2018 2021-08-16 23:36:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The dominant purchasing model in Europe and the UK is to go to the dealership, choose the vehicle and options, place an order, and then wait some number of weeks for the vehicle to arrive.

The dominant purchasing model in the US has always been to go to a dealership and choose something that is on the lot. Car companies give the dealership an "allocation" and they place orders with the car company for the cars that will go to their lot - within the confines of that allocation. Ford might tell them that if they want 50 Mustangs they also have to take 7 Fiestas. And generally, that's the only way that Fiestas will end up on the lot - because the dealership doesn't want anything but the most popular vehicle. So, does anyone really know what Americans will buy? I don't think they do.

Now Covid and supply shortages have happened. Dealers have nothing on the lot; they are selling everything while it is inbound to the dealer. Ford, at least, is currently offering a $1000 discount on many vehicles if you place an order and wait - like people buy cars in Europe.

So maybe this is going to be permanent. Manufacturers will like this better. I think dealers like it too. But if it sticks, we will likely see changes. More color choices, more combinations of options. And then, hopefully, more vehicle varieties. Because you've eliminated the need for unwilling dealers to keep some of them on the lot.

By the way, you can get a Ford 2.3T with a 7-speed manual transmission and (traditional) 4 wheel drive in the new Bronco. That would make a sweet combo in a wagon (but with full-time AWD)

fergie 2021-08-16 16:56:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Its hard to explain, but "AmCar" is a sort of cultural identity think for many rural Norwegians.

I agree with the point about "British Ford”. Capris, Escorts and Sierras are quintessentially British cars, especially the ones with the Cosworth engines.

fy20 2021-08-17 07:59:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The engines are also completely different in the US vs Europe. Ford diesel engines in Europe are made by Stellantis/PSA. The engine in a Ford Fiesta is also used in cars by Peugeot, Citroen, DS, Opel/Vauxhall and Toyota.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_DLD_engine#DLD-415

jorvi 2021-08-16 16:31:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]

When I think modern American cars I think either trucks like a Ford F-150 / Dodge Ram, or a gas-guzzling gigantic SUV like a GMC Yukon.

jorvi 2021-08-16 18:35:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Since I can't edit anymore: normally I prefer not to talk about downvotes, but wow, -3 for stating an opinion, what the hell. I guess Americans are extremely sensitive about how they are perceived..

jimbob21 2021-08-16 16:38:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]

>I feel like when most people think of American Cars they think of big GM's

This might be more correct if you specify the UK has this opinion, because it definitely isn't a generally held opinion elsewhere.

Everyone in the US definitely thinks of Ford as a quintessential American car company. The F-150 is the most popular truck in the US, and used to be the most popular vehicle of any type sold.

fhood 2021-08-16 16:31:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Oof, GM sucks and Ford isn't really even American. Talk about a one two punch. Not that I disagree with the main point, but jeez leave us with something wouldya?

TMWNN 2021-08-16 20:32:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Milner08's comment isn't saying that Ford isn't an American company. It's saying that in Britain, Ford was so accepted for so long that it became "one of our own". That's a compliment. See my other comment.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 16:35:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]

As an American, I recognize that the Ford cars popular across the pond are a very, very different set of vehicles than the Ford trucks popular around here.

The Ford Focus (including the RS version) is popular in Europe. However, as an owner of such a car, I only get raised eyebrows around here.

In contrast, F150 / Trucks / etc. etc. are "real Ford Cars". No one trusts Ford Sedans over here for some reason, despite their popularity in Europe (which is why Ford stopped selling Sedans in the USA, and are instead opting for a $20k truck: the Maverick, over continuing their efficient line of sedans)

foobarian 2021-08-16 16:43:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I don't think the problem with sedans was trust, so much as they were being outsold by SUVs and crossovers to the point it didn't make sense for Ford to keep making them.

I'm still upset they cut the Focus/Fiesta ST models. You will have to pry mine from my cold dead fingers :-)

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 16:46:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> which is why Ford stopped selling Sedans in the USA

More accurately, sedans from any manufacturer have been in steady decline for years. So only the biggest names are still selling enough to justify continued development. Everyone else is switching to CUVs because that's what customers want today. Can't blame them, typical CUVs now have basically the same fuel efficiency as a sedan but a little more utility and a bit easier to live with (slide in/out without up/down).

kube-system 2021-08-16 17:22:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I think CUVs are getting better gas mileage as a result of the competitiveness of the market, but I don’t think CUV buyers really care about gas mileage. They were selling well before they got good gas mileage, and SUVs sold good in the US too with abysmal gas mileage. Hybrid sedans still blow any CUV out of the water on MPGs, and are often cheaper than non-hybrid CUV counterparts.

People just like the configuration.

aaronbeekay 2021-08-17 02:10:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Agree with this broadly, but also CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) standards in the US mean that it likely was not possible for Ford to eliminate sedans before CUV fuel economy increased to a comparable point.

(I work at Ford, but in a role that doesn’t give me insight into internal vehicle program strategy.)

Retric 2021-08-16 17:19:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Some of that is just bouncing back from how low sedans became. A Ford land boat from the late 60’s and early 70’s didn’t require much getting up/down either.

2trill2spill 2021-08-16 17:03:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> The Ford Focus (including the RS version) is popular in Europe. However, as an owner of such a car, I only get raised eyebrows around here

Really? I own a 2017 Ford Focus RS in the states and I get a lot of compliments on my car. Most people don't even realize its a focus.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 17:09:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]

At least in my area, everyone recognizes the blue oval. Most people I talk to about my car is of the "Why did you get a Ford Sedan??" opinion.

Ford makes good trucks, but not good sedans. That's their reputation. That's where most conversations go. People ask me about maintenance issues and are surprised that I've only had to change the oil, brake pads, and windshield wipers and tires. People seem to think that Ford sedans fall apart if you look at them funny.

kipchak 2021-08-16 17:44:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]

My hunch is the memory of bad American sedans from the late 90s to early 2000s has either stuck around longer. I think now much less of a difference now but back in the day recall seeing more Sentra/Civic/Corollas on the road into old age than domestics.

I think recently it's been a bit of a chicken and the egg problem for ford and sedans, they don't sell enough volume to justify redesigns and they aren't redesigned so they're not (at least perceived as) terribly competitive.

anikom15 2021-08-16 21:28:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]

It’s far older than that. The reputation existed since at least the Pinto fires.

kipchak 2021-08-17 15:57:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Ironically though Ford would go on to do pretty much the same with the Explorer's tires and the fiesta/focus' transmission[1] but as I understand the Pinto was pretty much typical for compact cars of the era (they were all death traps) and the data used in the Mother Jones/60 Minutes exposes was inaccurate.

"Perhaps the most illuminating data comes from NHTSA fatality rates per million vehicles for 1975 and 1976. In the published chart, the Pinto is responsible for 298 deaths per million cars in 1975, making it on par with the Chevrolet Vega (288) and Datsun 510 (294), but considerably safer than the Datsun 1200/210 (392), the Toyota Corolla (333) and the VW Beetle (378). In 1976, the Pinto’s 322 deaths per million cars was slightly higher than the Chevrolet Vega (310) and AMC Gremlin (315), but better than the Datsun 510 (340), the Datsun 1200/210 (418) and the VW Beetle (370)."[2]

[1]https://www.freep.com/in-depth/money/cars/ford/2019/12/05/fo...

[2]https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2017/10/17/misunderstood-ca... citing [3]http://www.perishablepundit.com/docs/The_Myth_of_the_Ford_Pi...

bsanr2 2021-08-17 03:32:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]

People judge by how many older cars are still on the road. I see Tauruses on occasion, but not as often as I see Accords and Camrys.

bsanr2 2021-08-16 16:43:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]

>No one trusts Ford Sedans over here for some reason

From my personal observation: poor maintenance and safety ratings compared to alts. Driving is dangerous in America and you have to have a car to participate economically in most of the country. Also, the used market here is huge and not a lot of 90s/2000s Ford sedans made it this far.

Anyone who knows better, feel free to correct.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 16:48:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> poor maintenance and safety ratings compared to alts

Ford Focus beat the pants off of Honda Fit, roughly in the same category of weight (though the Honda Fit is quite a bit cheaper MSRP, the Ford Focus was frequently on sale at quite low prices).

But people _believe_ the Honda Fit has superior maintenance and safety ratings. So that's that. Reputation is more important than facts.

bsanr2 2021-08-17 03:27:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]

What? The Focus is a compact car and competes with the Civic. They've traded rankings over the years, but the Focus isn't a clear winner. The Fit is in a different class (a subcompact that competed with the Ford Fiesta), and in any case, I was thinking of the Corolla - which is far-and-away better-rated - and of larger sedans.

cptskippy 2021-08-16 16:42:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> like the Focus

In the US, the Focus isn't held in high regard. It's a lower class commuter car or a middle class teenager starter car. They have poor quality finishes and cosmetically look like ass after a year or two.

That's generally how most American cars are, they look all shiny and new the first year but the finish is superficial and wears off quickly. This is especially true of vehicles that win JD Power's "Highest in initial quality" awards.

throwaway0a5e 2021-08-16 17:15:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The fit and finish on these cars is fine. Their cost of ownership is fine. The true difference between brands is very, very small.

That said, the internet fanboy talking points you're parroting are exactly why your first sentence is spot on. The new car market is chock full of feedback loops that make perception more important than strict "by the numbers" reality.

cptskippy 2021-08-16 18:11:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Your comment is an interesting, you've correctly identified the phenomenon at play but misattributed.

> The new car market is chock full of feedback loops that make perception more important than strict "by the numbers" reality.

I can only assume you put "by the numbers" in quotes because you're referring to something other than actual numbers and statistics.

When you look at something like the Consumer Reports Reliability Index for the last 30 years you will find the 3 most unreliable brands are the big 3 US automakers.

If you look at CR's used cars to avoid list, guess who dominates? The same 3.

Most people don't have access to CR but there are plenty of sites that make their info available.

This one is a little dated but it does a good job showing historical data: http://autooninfo.net/

bsanr2 2021-08-17 03:38:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Thank you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. It's not just a perception that American cars of the last few decades tend to have more maintenance issues and therefore tend to end up totaled earlier; it's, like, the truth.

xeromal 2021-08-16 17:05:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Yup, what people think of as high quality and rugged American "cars" would be the truck. Used widely across the states, durable, functional, and built in the US for the most part.

martinmunk 2021-08-16 15:51:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I seems the Mach-E is the most sold model across the board, not just among Mustangs based on this article.

Fun fact: I just got back from Norway, and saw a Mach-E a week ago. Seen as it was apparently just released there "weeks ago", it must have been one of the first in the country.

nso 2021-08-16 15:54:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]

My step-dad in Norway got his the 3rd of June, so they are out there.

I just checked the price of a MUSTANG 5.0 V8 GT, and the price is almost exactly double in Norway from what it is where I live in Mexico.

dharmab 2021-08-16 16:07:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The five-oh is targeted towards enthusiasts and racetracks. Most Americans buy the 2.3L straight-4 EcoBoost.

mywittyname 2021-08-16 16:57:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Not anymore. In 2018, the V8 surpassed the Ecoboost in marketshare, 52% to 48%. If fleet sales were removed, then the V8 market share would probably climb a bit further.

The small engine Mustangs have always been derided as non-Mustangs. It shouldn't be surprising that, as coupes become less mainstream, the share of the smaller engine declines. The bulk of Mustang buyers anymore are old men.

Plus, there's the issue that, speccing a ecoboost Mustang with some performance goodies puts it within spitting distance of a 5.0. The Ecoboost HPP is like $32k and the "performance" upgrades for systems like the brakes are essentially base GT take-offs. This makes the $37k GT a really good deal in comparison.

Factoring in depreciation, the GT is a better deal. Fuel costs are marginal since you can run the GT on 87 with almost no power loss while the Eco is a dog without 93 octane. And, for me at least, the GT is cheaper to insure (by like $3) than an Eco. Add in low-interest, long-term loans and the monthly cost difference is minimal as well.

hef19898 2021-08-16 16:31:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Putting a four cylinder in a Mustang is sacrilege. High performance electric would be cool.

dharmab 2021-08-16 16:40:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The EcoBoost sales are what keep the 5.0 alive. You'd never justify the (honestly really great) chassis engineering with V8 sales alone.

hef19898 2021-08-17 07:29:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Sure, also V8s are basically obsolete tech by now. Even more so than ICEs in general. It just feels right to have one in certain cars. And yes, I know it doesn't make any sense. Electric, supplemented by bio fuels, is the way to go.

BoorishBears 2021-08-16 16:33:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The four cylinder and chassis make it a more competent sports car than most of the Mustangs that came before it, V8 or otherwise.

hef19898 2021-08-16 16:38:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]

That for sure. I have a 40 year old V8, no muscle car, with an excessive 125 hp. Any modern 4 cylinder beats that in tes of torque, power and mpg. But some parts deserve certain engines.

zip1234 2021-08-16 17:52:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The 2.3l Ecoboost now has about 350 hp. Modern cars have insane power.

dexterdog 2021-08-16 16:45:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]

But the Mach-E resembles what a mustang is in name only. I never understood why they called it that.

gwbas1c 2021-08-16 19:26:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Because of the performance and handling.

Have you driven a Tesla lately? My Model 3 dual motor drives and handles like a sports car, not like a modest family sedan that handles well in the snow.

The Mustang badge communicates that the Mach E has serious performance characteristics. When I test drove the electric Focus, it also had quite zippy acceleration, but everyone just assumed it was a dog-slow compliance car.

dogma1138 2021-08-16 21:07:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Have you even driven a sports car? Tesla has a fast acceleration it doesn’t drive or handles anything like a sports car or even a high performance sedan/saloon.

The closest thing to a “sporty” driving experience is probably the Taycan but whilst you can feel some Porsche in it, it doesn’t drive like a traditional Porsche either, it doesn’t even drive like the Panamera which is the closest ICE Porsche to the Taycan in terms of size and weight.

Tesla has still quite a bit to go with suspension, handling, steering and other driving characteristics before it can deliver a sports car driving experience, yet alone a Porchse or an BMW M series/Alpina.

The Mach-E also delivers nothing in terms of driving experience that is even remotely comparable to a Mustang, even given how wimpy many of the Mustang models have been lately.

Hamuko 2021-08-16 16:55:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]

>The Mach-E gives the common Norwegians access to the famed American Comfort Car (c/tm) without having to break the bank

People who are interested in owning a muscle car in Europe are a very select group of people and they're probably highly uninterested in the Mach-E.

gwbas1c 2021-08-16 19:22:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> American Comfort Car

The one time I sat in Mustang it definitely wasn't an "American Comfort Car." It was so snug I felt like I was wearing the car.

nso 2021-08-16 20:25:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]

In 2014 i rented one for a month-long road trip. While it was lacking in cargo space, I found it to be a very comfortable ride.

dharmab 2021-08-16 15:44:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The Mach-E really seems like a pretty good car.

As an enthusiast I can't get over the Mustang name, though. It's irrational and emotional.

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 16:51:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> It's irrational and emotional

That's exactly why they did it. Certainly gets people talking. Most (nearly all, really) consumers make their car purchasing decision more on emotion than objective analysis. They decide what they want first, based on how it makes them feel, or the image it projects, then they seek out justification to buy it.

Ford is really honest about it, when they talk about the 2.3L Mustang (and the base V6 before), they are specifically targeting "image seekers." These exist in large numbers, and help finance the enthusiast trims.

strikhedonia 2021-08-16 16:06:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Yes. I would have been a lot happier with the Mustang moniker if they made it sedan shaped instead what we got.

DetroitThrow 2021-08-16 18:26:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Exactly. Everyone who loves cars wanted an electric pony car or Corvette, despite the niche. Ford tries to play to a more general audience, luckily pulls it off, but still pisses off us car guys.

Honestly, they've done worse, but I grit my teeth a little when people say the name. And yes, I get that I'm irrational about a brand with the rest of the minority I know who is also pissed. It's history, though, ya know?

toomuchtodo 2021-08-16 16:03:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> It's irrational and emotional.

That’s marketing for you.

notJim 2021-08-16 16:35:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I feel like everyone calls it the Mach-E anyway, rather than the Mustang.

magicalhippo 2021-08-16 17:23:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> The Mach-E really seems like a pretty good car.

Except for some teething problems, like locking the car in some "safe mode" when going downhill[1], which had quite the dramatic impact in a country like Norway...

Fortunately for the owners it seems to only be a firmware issue, and not the regenerative charging hardware as speculated.

[1]: https://motor.no/forbruker/atte-nye-mustang-havarier--14-tot...

potatolicious 2021-08-16 16:04:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]

As someone who has no interest in owning a muscle car (or a sports car really of any variety) I'm into the Mach-E.

I get why they called it a Mustang, but it's really not - and that's actually a plus for me.

useful 2021-08-16 16:43:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I'd wait until the simplify the thermal system in a future generation.

HWR_14 2021-08-16 16:01:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]

My neighbor has been trying to buy a Mach-E since they were announced. They're so backed up his current plan is to buy a new gas car to tide him over until they become available and then he'll upgrade.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 16:38:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I really suggest people look into the PHEV market rather than buying pure ICE / gas.

If you can't get 100% electric, then getting to 95% electric is still a reasonable drop in emissions. Furthermore, PHEVs might have fewer greenhouse emissions over its lifetime than EVs: those Li-Ion batteries are pretty bad for the environment, and PHEVs use a fraction of them compared to pure electrics.

--------

Something like the Prius Prime, Rav4 Prime, Honda Clarity , or GM Volt will get you 50-miles per charge and 300-miles on gasoline.

Worst-case scenario, you have a gasoline engine (probably for 2-hour or 4-hour drives to the beach). Best case scenario (aka: most days), you leave your garage with 50-miles of electric range. Most PHEV owners suggest that they go months between gasoline fillups, often burning most gasoline to prevent stale fuel / maintenance purpose, rather than out of necessity. If your day-to-day is often within 50-miles between chargers (ex: 50-miles at home, and 50-miles from your work charger), you very well could cut out over 95% of your gasoline usage easily (with the remaining 5% the maintenance gasoline-burn offs)

HWR_14 2021-08-16 17:00:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> I really suggest people look into the PHEV market rather than buying pure ICE / gas.

Except his goal wasn't to buy an EV. It was to buy a Mach-E.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 17:06:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]

But then he bought an ICE vehicle instead.

> They're so backed up his current plan is to buy a new gas car to tide him over until they become available

--------

If your goal is to buy electric, why would you switch back to 0% electric, when you could have gotten 95% electric instead from say, Honda Clarity? (Where 95% of your energy on that car comes from electric, and 5% of your energy comes from rare multi-hour road-trips and maintenance burn-offs once a year?)

jdsully 2021-08-16 17:21:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I think the bigger picture here is that electrics are just becoming "cars". They aren't buying it because its electric, but because of the specifics of the car itself (styling, performance, etc). Because of that another electric car is not a replacement because they don't care specifically that its electric.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 17:42:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Hmm. I guess that's a point. I try not to get attached to any brand (using cars / equipment as a commodity means shopping around for the best car no matter the brand).

But I recognize that brand-recognition is a big thing for many car buyers.

--------

When I look at cars, I see what they're good for and kinda group things together. Hybrids, PHEVs, Electrics, Trucks, SUVs, Minivans, etc. etc.

Once I form a category for what I want (or what I think someone else wants, if I'm talking cars with someone else), I then list off all cars that match that category until there's a style / color / set of detailed options that matches their tastes.

But the category / overall fundamental car build comes first and foremost. Function determines form, as the architects like to say.

dahfizz 2021-08-16 18:03:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]

OP made no statement about brand loyalty. It sounds like the car buyer went through the same rational process you do and decided that the Mach-E was the car that they wanted.

When faced with the inability to buy the car they wanted, they decided that they will need to buy something else with the important new parameter that they will only own this car for a short time (until they can buy a Mach-E). With that new parameter, it makes sense to buy a gas car (cheaper to get into, TCO is much less of a factor, etc).

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 18:00:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> shopping around for the best car no matter the brand

Everyone's definition of best is different, and it is perfectly valid to differentiate by brand. E.g. you are unlikely to go too far wrong if you blindly assume Toyota == reliable.

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 17:58:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]

A hybrid is an ICE vehicle, except for a PHEV (and only for a few miles).

dragontamer 2021-08-16 18:02:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]

What percentage of electric-miles vs gasoline-miles do you think a typical Chevy Volt or Honda Clarity gets?

I'm guessing 90% electric / 10% gasoline, maybe 95% / 5% split. Based off of online chatter, and various simulations I've done myself (distance I travel each day, how often I take long road trips, etc. etc.)

I argue that PHEV is closer to 90% electric (because that 50-mile all electric range covers well over 90% of your travels: especially if your office has an electric charger available like mine), and 10% gasoline (because you have to use some maintenance gasoline... + the road trips you take)

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 18:13:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I agree, actually. My point was more that "ICE" includes all of the non-PHEV hybrids, and some people might actually include PHEV in the definition since they include an ICE drivetrain, so it's not necessarily a big step back for someone who had been considering an EV.

roland35 2021-08-16 17:11:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]

PHEVs don't seem to be popular but my car (Chevy Volt) has been a great gateway to a future EV. The only times I use any gas is if I do way more driving than usual in a day, or when the "engine maintence mode" kicks in once a month! It has much less maintenance than a normal gas car (2 year interval on oil changes for example), but still more than a pure EV obviously.

I don't regret missing out on an EV since the Volt was significantly cheaper at the time, but I look forward to my next car being one.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 17:35:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Pure EV won't work for me.

I still have hundreds+ mile trips. These trips are nominally 2 to 4 hours long, with planned breaks at specific locations that hold cultural significance to my family. (Yeah, its a bit silly, but certain stops, like a Cracker Barrel, hold significance to my nieces and they'll likely want to stop there on the next road trip. No electric chargers in sight yet, but plenty of gas stations)

Even then, changing a 4-hour trip into a 4-hour 30-minute trip for electric charging is just not going to work with kids in the car.

thatfrenchguy 2021-08-16 17:47:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I mean, you never stop in trips with your kids? That sounds pretty insane to me. I've done 1000+ miles in a EV and the charging times actually make the trip better.

dragontamer 2021-08-16 17:54:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Oh, I stop with kids. But its where the kids like to stop.

Having the car wanting to have a 30-minute break in an area where the kids don't want a break is just going to add additional, unnecessary hassle to the trip.

Supercharger location #532 is not the Cracker Barrel where the kids want to take a break at. Realistically, someone is going to get the short-end of the stick here. And that'd be me: I'd likely have to stop at the Cracker Barrel (to make the kids feel good + get them the silly cheap toys they want to stay happy during the trip), and then I'll have to take another 30+ minute stop at the supercharger later to keep the car going.

---------

Have you ever traveled with kids before? When the kids are asleep: you wanna book it as far as you can go.

When the kids are awake, you need to take frequent breaks, far more frequently than your electric car demands.

If your kids are asleep, you are wasting precious "kid sleeping time" sitting around at a 30+ minute supercharger instead of making good progress. If your kids are awake, there's no damn way they'll want to wait until the next supercharger for a break.

thatfrenchguy 2021-08-16 23:17:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> Supercharger location #532 is not the Cracker Barrel where the kids want to take a break at

No, it's probably somewhere interesting though. both Superchargers and ElectrifyAmerica in the US are in locations where there's interesting things to do or look at. Chargers are like every 40-50 miles or so, it's not like you have to wait an hour if you want to stop.

> Have you ever traveled with kids before?

Yes, a lot, in France, and I've never seen kids actually dictating when you stop.

Maybe it's a white American parenting thing, or an artefact of how French highways are built where you're not stopping if you just missed the rest area and they're all the same anyway?

dragontamer 2021-08-16 23:48:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> Maybe it's a white American parenting thing, or an artefact of how French highways are built where you're not stopping if you just missed the rest area and they're all the same anyway?

American highways have terrible rest stops. (Okay, it varies at the State level. Ohio's rest stops are actually really good for example)

For actual comfort for a decent stop, you wanna stop at a highway town / tourist trap. These are towns scattered across the US Highway system. There are chain restaurants (ex: McDonalds) if you're trying to make good time, but a nice sitdown place is often more comfortable.

Cracker Barrel is a nice chain that caters towards the highway travelers in particular. It has a children-oriented gift shop approximately the size of the restaurant. Its a good place to stop if you have kids. They stock all sorts of games and toys (simple peg-puzzles like solatare, backgammon, chess, checkers. Harmonicas / Kazoos too but don't buy those unless you wanna be annoyed while driving lol.) while also offering a good sized dining area.

Its a good place to take a break as an adult, while the kids can browse for toys that will amuse them for the rest of the drive.

-----------

That's the thing. I make a decision to stop there for the comfort of myself and the kids. That's a very different thing than going to a supercharger station for 30+ minutes out of necessity.

If you take enough road trips along the same route, the kids remember these locations and ask to visit again. The kids aren't the only ones who want to stop at the Cracker Barrel over there, I do too.

roland35 2021-08-16 22:20:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]

If you need one car, the PHEV is definitely the best of both worlds. It also is not dependant on fast charging at all, so I did not need to install a level 2 charger at home or worry about my destination.

The other benefit is it is still efficient with gas, about 40-45 miles per gallon. The first generation volt required premium fuel but my second gen takes 87, so it is very cheap to operate.

oh_sigh 2021-08-16 16:48:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I tried to buy a RAV4 prime recently and the dealership wanted me to pay $15,000 above the normal price for the privilege of buying a car in this market

tshaddox 2021-08-16 17:41:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Yes, as far as I can tell that's just how things are right now with all the pandemic shortages. Last month my local Subaru dealership mechanic told me they have exactly 10 cars on the lot, and that Subaru is telling them they'll start receiving new cars steadily in September (but he sounded skeptical of that claim). It's not "$15,000 more for the privilege," but rather "a lot of other people are willing to pay $15,000 more so we're not going to sell it to you for less."

oh_sigh 2021-08-17 03:46:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Sure, I completely understand the shortages. However, very few other consumer products in America are sold like that. Sony famously could not keep up with demand for their PS5, but they didn't start selling them at $1000/piece even though they could have. Maybe it has something to do with the middle-man arrangement of dealerships, but that is really inconsequential to me as a consumer when something is labeled as an official Toyota dealership.

Particularly galling was the fact that their website advertised a RAV4 prime for $45k, and when I emailed to buy it, I was told "That one is gone. But we have an exactly similar one that we can offer to you for a $15k fee". It felt like a scummy bait and switch, and I ended up getting my Model Y for less than I would have paid for that rav4.

fomine3 2021-08-18 02:22:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I think it's better that manufacturer/dealer get profit than scalpers get profit.

qq4 2021-08-16 17:13:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]

what is maintenance like on a PHEV vs an EV or ICE car? My intuition says it has more parts than a either and is thus more complicated

cmrdporcupine 2021-08-16 17:16:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I've had my Chevy Volt for 3.5 years and driven almost 100k km (60k miles) and for service... have done one oil change. That's it. (Well, tire rotation, but that just comes along with bi-annual winter tire changeover)

Extremely reliable.

qq4 2021-08-16 22:28:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]

my car was also like that for the few years with five digit miles. it's after that i'm concerned about.

cmrdporcupine 2021-08-17 03:04:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The more you drive electric the less maintenance. The car even tracks how many miles you put on the ICE and uses that to calculate oil changes, which in practice works out to every 2 years for me (which is also the maximum between intervals anyways).

The drivetrain on the Volt is actually quite simple and elegant when compared to a typical ICE car.

zip1234 2021-08-16 17:49:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]

EV maintenance is actually almost funny. Here is the maintenance for most EVs:

Every 10k miles:

1. check all the filters and fluids 2. rotate tires

HWR_14 2021-08-16 18:01:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]

That's also the maintence for most ICE cars, with a few extra fluids.

wazokazi 2021-08-16 16:15:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I finally got mine last week, took over 6 months after placing the order!

It is very well built, unlike any ford I have ever driven. Drove it for about a 100 mile trip in the Columbia gorge last weekend, it was a blast.

That said, even with 250+ mile highway range, my wife had a bit of range anxiety once the battery gauge dropped below 50%. Something that will hopefully go away with time.

andrewmunsell 2021-08-16 16:27:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Range anxiety goes away over time, for sure. I used to have an i3 with a hair over 100 miles of range and got used to low percentages even on that small battery, and now don't even blink when my Tesla is <10%.

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 16:54:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Range anxiety should recede with experience, provided the estimates from the car are accurate. My wife has become very comfortable with our Bolt, because she trusts that when it says it has 90 miles left, it really does have that (usually it slightly underestimates remaining range, if anything, though it's pretty close).

Can't really get around the bit of anxiety about knowing that there aren't as many recharging options out in the wild as there are gas stations, but it's comforting to know that you'll be fine making it home.

magicalhippo 2021-08-16 17:33:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]

We own an i3, and when doing longer trips the range anxiety isn't so much if we'll find a charging station, but if we'll be able to charge there.

For some reason charging stations seems to have a very high out-of-service frequency, and very often this status is not accurately reported in the various charging location apps.

It also doesn't help that certain apps tell you that there's an available charger when the reality is that the charging station has both CCS and CHAdeMO, someone is using the CHAdeMO so the CCS is useless. If you plug it in you won't be able to charge until the other one stops, and worse you won't be able to disconnect from the charger until then either. Yay!

Though this is usually just an issue on longer trips, and our car isn't exactly built for that anyway with its ~250km summer range.

mensetmanusman 2021-08-16 17:36:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Yeah, our mobile phones aren’t helping here. It’s so annoying to see the phone go to 20% and then drop off a cliff per unit time. Cars have to be really good at giving precise and confident range capability, with a safety factor.

jeffrallen 2021-08-16 20:16:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]

They are.

But also you come to understand the connection between real world conditions and "km of expected range consumed per real km", which ranges from -0.8 (regen, long downhill, battery ready to receive charge), 1 (flat, 80 kph, 21 degrees outside), and 2 or even 3 (steep uphill with heater or AC on).

Or maybe you do if you're a HN reader... :)

NotSammyHagar 2021-08-16 16:53:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]

What's charging like these days on the US CCS network? I've made many long-range trips in my Tesla which has about 250 miles range but there's so many superchargers it's pretty easy unless you head up into the mountains.

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 16:56:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]

In my experience it's fine. My Bolt doesn't have high-end DC fast charging speeds, but when we go on our road trips up north we pretty much do exactly the same trip as when we had our Tesla P3D. We stop at a different location, of course, but aside from having to wait 40 minutes instead of 20, it's been a non-issue.

Rebelgecko 2021-08-16 17:24:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Did you try out the handsfree driving assistance? I'm really curious to hear about how well that works, but haven't been able to find much in the way of reviews (maybe it isn't live yet?)

zip1234 2021-08-16 17:30:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]

They don't have the hands free stuff out yet (Blue Cruise is what they have named it). The current Mach-E does have a very nice advanced cruised control system though. I have a Mach-E and while you do have to keep your hands on the wheel, it will completely handle steering around curves and following distance from vehicles in front of you. I've only used it on the highway though.

wazokazi 2021-08-16 17:53:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]

It is supposed to roll out this quarter, they gave me a $100 rebate check for not having it available at the time of delivery :)

Edit: Forgot to mention, it is an additional $600 option to get hands free driving feature.

itsoktocry 2021-08-16 15:47:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]

It took a while, but the legacy automakers are finally putting out some decent EVs.

From a quality and performance perspective, they seem to be pretty good, but still have a ways to go to match Tesla in the "wow" factor. But, perhaps the similarity with everyday ICE vehicles will be a boon to adoption; older people are reluctant to take on seemingly overwhelming tech...

jclardy 2021-08-16 16:16:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]

With the Mustang and the F-150 Lightning I think Ford is in a pretty good position to become the leader in the EV space.

I'm personally waiting for the F-150 as I could use a truck for hauling things to a retail store my wife and I own, but I also don't like ICE truck's just because there is no trunk to keep things like my laptop or simply transporting groceries. The frunk on the lightning is a huge selling point for me, other than not having to go to a gas station since 99% of my trips are in town < 20 miles so I can just charge at home.

ajross 2021-08-16 17:04:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> With the Mustang and the F-150 Lightning I think Ford is in a pretty good position to become the leader in the EV space.

I think a lot of this is the result of some marketing and memery. In fact I went through that process, and decided on a BEV crossover, and the Model Y beats the Mach-E handily on basically every non-subjective metric but price. And it's really not that close.

Ford has done a good job of digging themselves out of a huge hole, and have a decently competetive car in the market. And it's selling well enough. But Tesla is moving like an order of magnitude more vehicles into that space, has their factories running at capacity and is in the process of tripling their production bandwidth (Gigafactory Shanghai is still ramping, and Berlin and Austin seem to be on track to go online this year). It's pretty clear who the leader is.

atty 2021-08-16 16:21:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Yeah I think a lot of the familiarity is a good thing. I don’t think my dad would ever buy a Tesla, he would be put off by the minimalism and all the controls on the screen (and he wouldn’t even consider a car with a yoke instead of a steering wheel… although to be fair, neither would I). On the other hand, if I get a charger installed in his garage, I think he would be very happy to use a car that works (in terms of user interaction) just like his old one, but where he doesn’t have to go to the gas station and get oil changes.

NotSammyHagar 2021-08-16 16:59:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The yoke on the new s seems obviously stupid. If I ignore that every anything else seems good. I've got a 7-year-old s and about the only reason for a new car is an extended warranty over mine which ends at 8. If I could buy a warranty for two or three more years I'd probably just keep this car. The rivian looks good.

eptcyka 2021-08-16 16:59:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]

What do you mean by a "wow" factor? Is it like "Wow, look at those panel gaps?"?

The best and only redeeming quality Tesla vehicles have is the charging network. Quality-wise, they are overpriced.

itsoktocry 2021-08-19 14:21:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]

>What do you mean by a "wow" factor?

I'm certainly no Tesla pumper, as you can tell from my comment history.

But to say that getting in a Tesla isn't a different experience than other cars is just wrong. They've done a lot of things differently, for better or worse.

Hamuko 2021-08-16 17:07:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I mean, the technology in Teslas is very solid. If I was looking at cars technology-wise, Tesla would be really high up there.

The problem is that Tesla has basically the reverse wow factor. The Tesla Model 3 is so unattractive from the inside and outside that no matter how nice the tech is, I don't want to drop 50 000 € on a car that looks like a frog on the outside and unfinished on the inside.

ulfw 2021-08-16 17:14:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]

and the design is very tired.

Notice how I am not judging on good- or bad-looking. But the Tesla design has been basically the same for many years and frankly all models look so similar (with just different sizes and door configs etc etc)

mensetmanusman 2021-08-16 18:11:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Confused, you said they all look the same when talking about design, but started with saying your comment is not about looks?

Which non-aesthetic/look design aspect is tired?

ajross 2021-08-16 18:48:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> But the Tesla design has been basically the same for many years

They've completely changed the interior in the current generation, starting with the 2018 Model 3. It's actually quite unique in the industry, nothing else looks like a Tesla.

Are you only talking about exterior design? Usually people prefer that to be a bit conservative, don't they? A 2021 Prius, for example, still has basically the same profile as the iconic 2004. Major changes to body style in the car industry are a once-a-decade thing, if that. And these are new cars; the first Model S shipped in 2012!

Hamuko 2021-08-17 07:37:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]

>A 2021 Prius, for example, still has basically the same profile as the iconic 2004.

The 2004 Prius and the 2021 Prius don't really look anything like each other unless you just compared the outlines of the profiles. Meanwhile trying to decipher if a Tesla Model S is a new one or an old one is a bit like trying to decipher if a car is a sport variant or a comfort variant. "Oh, you can tell that it's the sport version because the brake calipers are larger and the rear wheel arches are flared"

natch 2021-08-16 17:32:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]

If it’s just surface design you’re after, there are plenty of other options. Have at it. Personally I’m more interested in the powertrain efficiency and other consequential features.

njarboe 2021-08-16 17:41:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I think that is on purpose. If you want society to have cars but use less resources than they currently do, then one should try and make them last as long as possible. Tesla has stated that it want to have cars last a million miles. The motors should do that already and they are working on the other components to do the same. We this in mind, one would want the 20 year old car to look very similar to the new one so that people don't feel the need to buy a new car just because the design is "very tired".

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 20:16:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]

With all due respect, this sounds like yet another one of those "Let's spin this negative thing so it sounds good!" situations. Like the spartan interior. Better than just admitting it needed to have costs reduced in every conceivable way, it became 'elegant.'

Same with the exterior design. Redesigning & retooling every few years is expensive. Much cheaper to tell people you're trying to save the world.

Hamuko 2021-08-16 17:51:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]

>Tesla has stated that it want to have cars last a million miles.

They should really have a better attitude towards independent repair shops if they want to do that.

njarboe 2021-08-16 23:22:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]

No argument there.

ajross 2021-08-16 17:06:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]

This is a meme. It's true that back around 2015 or so there were some genuine videos made of people finding big mistakes on their luxury-priced vehicles and laughing about it. But that was years ago.

Go check now and see how many horror stories you can find about manufacturing errors on 3's or Y's. These are fine cars. I mean, I'm sure someone can find an error here or there, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with these cars. Tech neighborhoods are increasingly filled with them, just go to a Whole Foods parking lot and look at some. See how many gaps you can find.

itsoktocry 2021-08-19 14:24:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]

>Tech neighborhoods are increasingly filled with them

Tech neighbourhoods with filled with Juiceros, too.

Tesla's rank poorly in quality, not sure why you think it's a meme. Driving around California is quite a different experience than winters in Canada.

eptcyka 2021-08-16 19:10:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I'm pretty sure they still can't make a car that doesn't fall apart[1].

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pg7JmKElUw

ajross 2021-08-16 23:09:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Ugh. There are no panel gaps shown in the linked video, nor any manufacturing defects. The complaints are about damage and dirt in a loaner vehicle from a service center.

This is what I meant. It's a meme. All you care about is that headline ("Tesla Can't Build Cars") and not the truth about anything.

jazzyjackson 2021-08-17 05:26:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]

You’re wrong about the video, it’s fine not to watch it but don’t tell other people they’re not telling the truth. He was complaining about the service center installing the license plate but this was a new car off the showroom floor that was clearly falling apart, I wouldn’t have accepted delivery of this.

eptcyka 2021-08-17 00:06:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]

It's not a loaner vehicle, it's the replacement for the one that was totaled. Here's another video of a 2021 model year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFfgpHkNCOM

duncans 2021-08-16 17:20:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]

For long trips and fast charging it has a quite disappointing charging curve though. It only manages 150 kW for about 5 minutes before dropping off quickly down to ~100 kW: https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360019984758-Ch...

rootusrootus 2021-08-16 18:02:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]

That's fairly typical, in my experience. My Tesla P3D spent a lot more time at about 90 kW than it ever did at 130+.

notJim 2021-08-16 17:27:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Have folks in the US seen many of these around? I haven't seen one yet.

spike021 2021-08-16 17:50:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I'm in the SF Bay Area and as to be expected around here, I've seen quite a few. Maybe 8-10 so far in all the different colors.

ganoushoreilly 2021-08-16 17:28:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I've seen at least 4, all different colors. Not crazy numbers but it's clear they're showing up.

tshaddox 2021-08-16 17:44:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I've seen a few in the Bay Area. It always takes me a moment to figure out what I'm looking at.

acomjean 2021-08-16 16:40:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Thats kinda remarkable. Mustangs are Rear Wheel Drive, which is why We hardly see them in the US in the Northern Climates. (I've helped one push them out of snow..)

Snow tires help a bit, but still.

Edit: I see there is an "all wheel drive" variant

derekp7 2021-08-16 16:42:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]

A lot of it depends on the balance of the car too. I used to drive a 92 Cougar that was rear wheel drive, and a number of times I had to help get a front-wheel drive car out of the snow where mine didn't have any issues.

KoftaBob 2021-08-16 16:44:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The Mach E is a crossover SUV with AWD option

acomjean 2021-08-16 16:47:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I just looked at the articles front photo. A little digging deeper and it really is an SUV and not like the Muscle cars I remember with the mustang name.

zip1234 2021-08-16 17:37:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The car is well balanced regarding weight and the reports I have read are that even RWD model handles fine in snow because of the weight and tires.

Hamuko 2021-08-16 16:46:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Rear wheel drive is completely passable in snowy climates. Just put on studded tyres and drive sensibly.

SevenSigs 2021-08-16 23:31:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]

FWD or RWD doesn't matter much if the weight of the car is distributed evenly...

dharmab 2021-08-16 16:41:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The Mach E has AWD available.

mixmastamyk 2021-08-16 16:47:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]

What are Ford’s data collection policies?

Calling a ‘soccer mom’ vehicle a mustang is rather off-putting as well.

SevenSigs 2021-08-16 23:32:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]

"Ford Exec: 'We Know Everyone Who Breaks The Law' Thanks To Our GPS In Your Car"

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1

Probably a lot worst today, that was 7 years ago.

jeffbee 2021-08-16 16:01:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Isn't this just the same effect that causes Tesla to be the best-selling car in Norway and other small countries from time to time? They build up a big book of pre-orders and then after a year they land a whole ship full of cars and fulfill all the orders, become the instantaneous "best-selling car" but in a way that's practically meaningless.

ajross 2021-08-16 16:20:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Largely. There's a lot of noise in car sales month-to-month. Different manufacturers prioritizes different markets in blocks. And in the case of cross-continent shipping to small nations, frankly the arrival date of specific freighters can jiggle the numbers.

But Ford seems to be doing well with this car regardless. It's not beating Tesla in sales numbers, but it's selling and competing.

tyfon 2021-08-16 17:44:48 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Tesla only delivers at the end of each quarter here in Norway due to logistics, however the Model 3 is the best selling car so far this year[1] it's not just some months when you aggregate.

The statistics here are only for electric cars but BEVs outsell fossils by quite a lot now so the M3 top the list of all cars too including fossils

But I see a lot of mach-es on the road lately :)

[1] https://elbilstatistikk.no/ Sort by 2021

kwhitefoot 2021-08-16 16:56:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Yes.

Earlier in the year the Audi e-tron electric was the best seller in Norway.

The long term winner seems to be VW at the moment.