Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?
neverminder 2021-08-18 15:39:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Laptop - Dell Precision 7750, Xeon CPU, 64 GB RAM, bought with Ubuntu pre-installed. Beast of a laptop, superior thermals, wipes the floor with a mac.
Phone - Google Pixel. I consider that a lesser evil choice to Apple's walled garden. It's rooted, I don't see any ads, etc.
Tablet - Google Pixel Slate. High end tablet with 16 GB RAM running Chrome OS which supports native linux apps for a while now.
These were all more or less state of the art devices at the time of buying, I have absolutely no need whatsoever to to even think about Apple or Microsoft.
mullingitover 2021-08-18 19:19:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Pretty sure your photos are still getting scanned for CSAM anyway, then. Google Photos normally are backed up in their cloud, and they do scanning there.
stjohnswarts 2021-08-19 15:11:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gazby 2021-08-18 16:17:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I also have an Android tablet and Android phone running LineageOS without Google Play Services, and piggy-back off the SO's Google Maps when we're going places. F-Droid is fantastic here and, where needed, proprietary apps (Slack, Discord etc) can be installed via Aurora with various limited functionality (e.g. no notifications from either of those apps).
neverminder 2021-08-18 16:44:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gazby 2021-08-18 17:53:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
* I can only have Intel CPUs and NVIDIA GPUs
* They've removed all but one external indicator light (there used to be four), and its behavior is completely useless (there's no way for me to tell externally what the power state of my machine is)
* They've killed the trackpoint
* This is the second of this series I've owned where neither of the fingerprint reader options are Linux compatible (no warning at purchase)
* The keyboard layout has regressed substantially - no more media keys, home and end keys are now fn-modified in the F row, page-up and page-down are also fn-modified where they used to be dedicated physical keys
* The e-port dock is gone in favor of a USB-attached version that occupies both USB-C ports on the chassis (and only provides two on the dock)
When I first received it my initial impulse was "if I wanted this level of regression per generation I'd still be buying Apple", but I've learned to live with it, embodying the grouchy sysadmin stereotype even further (in a hyperbolic way), much to the delight of my coworkers.
P.S. Why are you doing this to me Dell?!
neverminder 2021-08-18 19:08:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Don't even get me started on Apple. If removing the physical Esc key is not the biggest ever fuck you to pro users, then I don't know what is.
knownjorbist 2021-08-19 06:17:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]
stereoradonc 2021-08-19 00:23:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
neverminder 2021-08-19 08:07:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Dracophoenix 2021-08-18 17:06:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]
And how long do you plan to keep the Precision before upgrading?
neverminder 2021-08-18 17:34:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I don't use Adobe's stuff either, but I know other people run Photoshop on wine, I just don't know what issues they're facing.
username91 2021-08-18 16:23:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
neverminder 2021-08-18 16:29:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Ardour is probably most popular DAW on linux and it's OSS/free, but I found Bitwig better for my use, mainly due to MIDI functionality.
username91 2021-08-18 16:53:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
neverminder 2021-08-18 17:25:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
alecco 2021-08-19 06:37:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]
neverminder 2021-08-19 08:04:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
timbit42 2021-08-18 18:58:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
crossroadsguy 2021-08-18 15:10:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
However if I buy a new laptop, with or without CSAM, it won’t be a Mac. I would wish for a Framework kinda thing here (with local service), but since that’s not gonna happen - ASUS it would be most probably, with ElementaryOS on it (or some distro like that - non ugly and kinda simple looking).
It feels like WhatsApp —> Signal brouhaha all over again. After trying to get my contacts on Signal for 7-8 months and having deleted WhatsApp I’m back to it after my own struggles with Signal.
So no, not again. My next phone (if my iPhone 7 dies on me) will be an iPhone 12 Mini (or a 13 variant that’s around same size and cost) probably. Because that’s the only new phone that still bloody fits in my palm. After that? I’ll see.
thefunnyman 2021-08-18 23:15:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
whoknowswhat11 2021-08-18 15:31:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
My instinct. This is an insane amount of noise on HN. But of all the privacy issues folks have, CSAM scanning by Apple is not going to "destory apple's brand" and for most users the safety features (kids accounts flag up on nude photos etc) is actually what people want and we will see others following a lot of these moves.
411111111111111 2021-08-18 20:38:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Their interest in privacy was never real, but their marketing is top notch as always... It's just a question of time when everything is back to how it was before
hpkuarg 2021-08-18 16:54:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
karlzt 2021-08-18 14:45:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Phone: Pinephone
At the end of this article: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7e77y/the-dollar149-smartph...
"But even without those changes, this device could be enough to kickstart a Linux-driven mobile revolution."
ostenning 2021-08-18 16:21:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
commoner 2021-08-19 10:46:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]
- Preview: GNOME Document Viewer (now supports PDF form filling), Master PDF Editor (paid and proprietary), built-in PDF editor in Firefox/Chromium, Okular; GNOME Image Viewer, Gwenview, Pantheon Photos (part of elementary OS)
- Mail: Thunderbird, Evolution, Kontact (KMail component), Geary, Pantheon Mail, Claws Mail, Mailspring
- Calendar: Thunderbird (built-in calendar), GNOME Calendar, Evolution, Kontact (KOrganizer component), Pantheon Calendar
xtracto 2021-08-19 16:58:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The way I achieve that in my Mac is by opening both file in preview, select and drag the pages I want from PDF-A to PDF-B and then select and delete the pages I don't want from PDF-B.
Why do these simple things have to be so cumbersome in Linux in 2021?
josteink 2021-08-18 15:12:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Talking as a Pinephone (and iPhone 12) owner, I think the software is starting to show promise, but the SoC is nowhere beefy enough.
If I’ll go this route fully and make a Linux-phone my daily driver, I’d seriously consider the Purism Librem 5 instead.
gorgonzolachz 2021-08-18 19:29:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Last I checked, both purism and pine64 are struggling with this.
fsflover 2021-08-19 10:07:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
swiley 2021-08-18 17:00:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
donohoe 2021-08-18 14:33:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Many of these already do something like this but they just don't actively tell you or document it.
Also, and please correct me if I am mistaken, Apple's CSAM is limited to iCloud for Photos. It does not just work against your local photos.
CSAM Detection enables Apple to accurately
identify and report iCloud users who store
known Child Sexual Abuse Material (CSAM)
in their iCloud Photos accounts
Source: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...
ByteWelder 2021-08-18 14:49:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
(edit)I was planning to buy a new MBP/iPhone/Watch in Q4, so this made it easier to decide on those purchases earlier.(/edit)
It's correct that the CSAM scanning is currently only effective when iCloud is enabled - and for US customers only. For me, this detail is irrelevant. The backdoor might be inactive for now, but there would still be a backdoor on my phone.
djrogers 2021-08-18 15:19:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The key (from Apple's POV) is that this is done on your device, so the model can be audited, and users will know if it changes or is suddenly enabled where it wasn't before. Apple has documented the entire threat model and their design decisions realted to each threat vector.
It's worth reading the document, as it becomes pretty clear that this is a step towards enabling E2E for iCloud Photos.
The alternative to what Apple did is cloud-based scanning, which is less transparent, permanently disallows E2EE, and is more vulnerable to being changed by national decree. If CSAM scanning is going to (or is already) mandatory, I vastly prefer Apple's method here.
[1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Security_Threat_Model...
nzealand 2021-08-18 16:49:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
This is such a good point. The US government has been heavily pushing for backdoors, and can gag discussion under threat of national security.
It also seems counter productive to punish the one corporation who is apparently being transparent about this. Nobody here likes marketing BS, but this reaction here on HN is why we get marketing BS instead of technical details.
Edit: Legally, these searches do not violate the 4th amendment because the government pretends hash scans are entirely voluntary. Most ISPs and email companies "voluntarily" choose to hash match. I can't remember the specifics, but ISPs that refuse to do this have been threatened with legal action.
https://www.bjcl.org/blog/hashing-it-out-how-an-automated-cr...
breuleux 2021-08-18 15:52:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rovr138 2021-08-18 16:10:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I hope not.
If hashes are uploaded to devices, they can be extracted and images that clash against it can be created.
I think they're going to be creating hashes of images locally that are being uploaded and send it with the image. Then if the hash is found to match one on their database, that's flagged.
The problem then is, if they're matching on their side, what prevents them from receiving some order that forces them to match for other images?
breuleux 2021-08-18 17:13:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Many organizations have the hashes, so they could leak nonetheless. Either way, I don't think that's a major problem. If the system interprets a picture of a pineapple as CSAM, you only need to produce the picture of a pineapple to defend yourself against any accusations. If clashes are too commonplace, the entire system would become unreliable and would have to be scrapped.
In any case, I have looked it up. The database is indeed on the device, but it's encrypted:
https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...
> Instead of scanning images in the cloud, the system performs on-device matching using a database of known CSAM image hashes provided by NCMEC and other child-safety organizations. Apple further transforms this database into an unreadable set of hashes, which is securely stored on users’ devices.
Overall, after reading the PDF, here is my understanding of the process:
1. Apple gathers a set of "bad hashes"
2. They upload to each device a map from a hashed bad hash to an encrypted bad hash
3. The device runs an algorithm that determines whether there are matches with hashed bad hashes
4. For each match, the device uploads a payload encrypted using a secret on-device key, and a second payload that contains a "share" of the secret key, encrypted using the neural hash and encrypted bad hash.
5. The device also periodically uploads fake shares with dummy data to obfuscate the number of matches that actually occurred. Apple can't tell fake shares from real ones unless they have enough real shares.
6. Once Apple has enough real shares, they can figure out the secret key and know which hashes caused a match.
The main concern I have, and as a non-expert, is step 2: it requires Apple to provide their key to an auditor who can cross-check with child protection agencies that everything checks out and no suspect hashes are included in the payload. In theory, that needs to be done every time a new on-device database is uploaded, but if it is done, or if child protection agencies are given the secret so that they can check it themselves, I think this is a fairly solid system (notwithstanding the specifics of the encryption scheme which I don't have the competence to evaluate).
The thresholding is also a reassuring aspect of the system, because (if it works as stated) the device can guarantee that Apple can't see anything at all until a certain number of images match, not even the count of matching images. The threshold could only be changed with an OS update.
There's certainly a lot of things to discuss and criticize about their system, but it's going to be difficult to do so if nearly no one even bothers reading about how it works. It's frustrating.
rerbrerb 2021-08-19 02:55:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If the system interprets a picture of a pineapple on your phone as CSAM,
after Apple notifies the authorities they have identified child porn on your phone,
after the police detain you with the courtesies afforded to all alleged pedophiles,
after you cough up your phone’s password,
you only need to produce the picture of a pineapple to defend yourself against any accusations,
and then point out to the folks with the guns that no, you didn’t delete the child porn from your phone, look, it’s just a pineapple,
and then explain to your captors how hashes work,
then there’s nothing to worry about.
Good luck.
breuleux 2021-08-19 15:17:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If they know this attack is possible, Apple, not being idiots, will cover their asses in court by saying that a match is merely strong evidence that the user may have had CSAM on their account, but that it cannot be said for certain unless the full image is obtained by the authorities, and that the full image should be where they say it is, with the voucher made by the device.
Because of that, prosecutors are unlikely to want to move forward without better evidence: Apple may very well testify for the defence if they do, and judges will ultimately chew them out. So yeah, I suppose rashness and incompetence in some parties may lead to a very uncomfortable situation, but ultimately it is likely that the police would be reprimanded for it and that it would be a lot more cautious afterwards.
theshrike79 2021-08-19 05:47:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Apple has a team that will manually vet the matches, so no pineapple picture or a fuzzy forced hash collision picture will cause the authorities to be notified.
So if you're worried someone will secretly send fake CSAM hash collision images to your phone to trigger the process, the worst that will happen is that some poor sod at Apple will get mildly inconvenienced.
Gollapalli 2021-08-19 14:07:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]
And here's the real question, what's to stop them from using this on say: political memes instead of CSAM?
breuleux 2021-08-19 15:29:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
As for using it for other things than CSAM, well, for one, Apple would know, because the thumbnails would show political memes, so they'd have to be in on the conspiracy. They probably don't want that liability. Furthermore, the hashes are supposed to be auditable: a third party could check that they are what they are, a court order could order such an audit, and it would be suspicious for Apple to refuse. They wouldn't want to include anything that could piss off any sufficiently powerful government or, say, the EU, because they are likely to figure it out. And if they give different hashes to different citizens, that will also be obvious.
askonomm 2021-08-18 23:03:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:02:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mateuszf 2021-08-18 15:13:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Nope, you can use a degoogled android. There's still a matter of hardware that's not open but there's not much we can do that without sacrificing a lot of usability.
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:24:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mateuszf 2021-08-18 15:29:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
wayoutthere 2021-08-18 14:58:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Love it or not, we live in a police state enforced by surveillance. Most Americans are just waking up to this because they’re not a member of a population actively oppressed by the police. Socialist / anarchist / labor communities that are more than shitposting groups meet almost exclusively in-person because their communications have long been targeted by law enforcement.
mohanmcgeek 2021-08-18 16:54:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]
wayoutthere 2021-08-18 17:06:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If you look to other societies, this happens there too. There is a symbiotic relationship between mass media and government at a fundamental level. There’s a reason that the first things you do after a coup are to lock down the Internet and sieze the TV / radio broadcast infrastructure.
mohanmcgeek 2021-08-18 18:13:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
wayoutthere 2021-08-19 12:03:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Companies have always tried to run parallel, unelected governments. Whether it’s “company towns,” banana republics, or social media restrictions doesn’t matter.
No, I think the root of the problem is that the ability to disseminate information widely across a population is not a good thing. I do think there should be real regulation on mass speech that is proportional to the audience size. If you have 100k followers on Instagram, that should come with some responsibilities.
knownjorbist 2021-08-19 06:20:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Is this actually true? Is there a way to see what information Apple has on you? I'm sure it's not the full extent of what they have, but for example I can see(and hear) past voice prompts I've given to Google Assistant and their results. I can also choose to delete this information(obviously no way to know this is actually deleted though).
matwood 2021-08-18 15:33:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The reality is, people have to trust their OS vendor.
donohoe 2021-08-18 16:11:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It doesn't compel me to drop Apple. I still think they are the best of the best, but I agree in sentiment to many people here that it was a huge drop in my trust.
The lesson for me is that I cannot trust any company, and that is probably a smart approach. I will depend on myself and right now Apple, amongst all the players, is still the one that manages my privacy better than anywhere else. But I'll be watching.
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 14:33:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs.
I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to battery life and useful apps I need. I'll pick CSAM Scanning over my Location data being in the hands of Google, sorry.
And as for my laptop, macOS doesn't scan, and the M1 is too impressive and has me spoiled. And I have too many horror stories with both Linux and Windows and can't stand either of them. (Don't tell me switch to Linux - I've tried over a dozen distributions over the last decade. It's just not there yet.)
xtracto 2021-08-19 17:02:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I don't any hardware or software developer... I don't really care if the US is reading my emails, images, chats and whatnot. I choose not to worry about those sort of things.
My product choices are more related to functionality and basic ROI.
redisman 2021-08-18 15:22:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
system16 2021-08-18 15:34:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
jon-wood 2021-08-18 16:53:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
greyhair 2021-08-18 18:37:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]
imwillofficial 2021-08-18 15:36:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Wait what? You’re 180 degrees wrong.
macksd 2021-08-18 15:42:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ChemSpider 2021-08-18 16:04:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
croutonwagon 2021-08-18 16:21:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
But rather in the context of those in America that largely only deal with American government officials and those outcomes.
And to my knowledge. China isnt abducting people or conduction renditions on american soil.
macksd 2021-08-18 17:09:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
As I said - I agree that China's government is worse. In fact my previous employer had a policy that company devices just didn't cross that border, even when traveling for work. But it's still not a factor in which devices I purchase myself.
imwillofficial 2021-08-18 19:10:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
But that's not what the original comment said.
macksd 2021-08-18 19:51:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
dmantis 2021-08-18 15:41:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
China, on the other hand, does not seem to give a single f* about foreigners, only about their own citizens. Most people are not so are not really endangered even if chinese spyers do know what they handle on their phones. So in battle between US spyers/China spyers I'd better give my data to Chinese, if I don't have a choice not to share my data at all.
China, as well, don't try to make extraterritorial laws (like financial regulations), so it's harder to even be targeted by CCP if your are a foreigner.
ChemSpider 2021-08-18 16:10:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
https://www.dw.com/en/china-sentences-swedish-publisher-to-1...
isoskeles 2021-08-18 16:31:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
dpratt 2021-08-18 15:43:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The Chinese secret police don’t present a threat to me, whereas the NSA has the means, motive (at the leadership level) and opportunity to violate my natural rights.
garmaine 2021-08-18 16:07:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
therealmarv 2021-08-18 16:03:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Retric 2021-08-18 16:26:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
However, after this backlash you can bet other manufacturers will continue to hide what their actually doing.
therealmarv 2021-08-18 18:40:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Retric 2021-08-18 19:08:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]
However, the perception was very different.
therealmarv 2021-08-19 10:14:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Syonyk 2021-08-18 15:50:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
However, as one who's moved from an iPhone to a Nokia 8110 with KaiOS, which I in no way argue is as secure as iOS:
It has less on it. It has far less on it. It has my phone calls, a handful of text messages, and while it has email access right now, I'm experimenting with if I actually need that, or can remove it (leaning towards removing it). And my calendar.
The camera is horrible, so I just carry a pocket digital camera with me now if I care to take photos, which don't end up on the phone.
If I don't give it wifi privileges (which it currently has, but I've been running with wifi off and cell data off to see how that works, and the answer so far is "quite well"), there's simply not much it can really do to my accounts or network.
jazzyjackson 2021-08-18 17:13:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
isoskeles 2021-08-18 16:34:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Syonyk 2021-08-18 17:39:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I believe there are some Google Authenticator apps for KaiOS, just not in the main app store, and I've not gone through the process of working out sideloading yet.
kcartlidge 2021-08-18 19:31:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I'd love to go feature phone, but would be missing two essentials for work purposes:
- A 2FA application (eg Google Authenticator, Authy)
- A password manager (eg BitWarden, KeePass, etc)
I can do without emails etc but not those two, yet whenever feature phones try and be more feature-some they do the same old emails, FB, WhatsApp etc instead.
sneak 2021-08-18 18:43:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Google Authenticator is sort of a crap option for doing TOTP, all things considered.
neuronic 2021-08-18 15:31:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Picking a Chinese phone based on financial circumstances, however, is understandable IMO.
gruez 2021-08-18 15:34:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
jcun4128 2021-08-18 15:50:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I have a KDE edition Pinephone that I intend to use more overtime but primarily an Android user.
Also I get super annoyed when Android bundles stuff on your phone. I realize you can get rid of it/the cheap phone has to get paid somehow... but like having notifications that you can't slide away... things like that. Want more control over I realize Linux phones are lacking in software, pretty bad... Plasma looked really nice, Phosh not so nice (home screen) but it works out of the box though particularly detecting external screens. Anyway I'm looking forward to it improving over time, a cheap Samsung Dex-like experience is my desire.
fsflover 2021-08-18 17:36:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The Pinephone modem is partially open already:
https://linuxsmartphones.com/hackers-develop-open-source-fir...
jcun4128 2021-08-18 17:39:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Edit: another thing to my parent comment, ads in your voicemail... the visual voicemail app in Android. Omg that annoys me so much, thankfully I have not been getting many voicemails anymore.
scoopertrooper 2021-08-18 14:55:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Of all the things in the world to get worked up over, this is ridiculous.
I get it, the mechanism they're using has apparent flaws, and maybe some whacko could somehow get access to your phone and start uploading things that trick the algorithm into thinking you have CP.
But, that alone is such a ridiculous phobia, if someone has that level of access to your phone, they could upload real CP and maybe even upload it to your Facebook for good measure.
jrockway 2021-08-18 15:20:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
There is no technical reason why this needs to exist. If they want to scan iCloud photos for something, they can do that on their servers. iCloud is not end-to-end encrypted. Law enforcement can do whatever they want with the data you send there. Since they chose the client-side route, they have to be up to something, and it all smells very fishy. Today, they say it's for CSAM. Tomorrow, it will be for any discontent against whatever government wants to oppress its people this week -- and as time goes forward, that is not just third-world countries where you don't live, it could be your own.
Do you really want to explain to the police at your door at 3:30 in the morning why you read a website called Hacker News? This is the first step towards that reality.
Imagine I wrote a program that contained the phone numbers of people I don't like. The database is encrypted, and the only way to see if you're on that list is to install the app on your phone. The app does two things -- nothing if you're not on my list, or it sends me your location (at your expense!) if you are. Would you install that app? Absolutely not, that would be crazy. But that is basically what is bundled into iOS now.
I really like my iPhone and iPad Pro. I like how Apple handles privacy in general. But I can't accept this. It's a step too far. You don't have to draw the line there, but I draw the line there.
scoopertrooper 2021-08-18 15:35:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Okay.
> We have no idea what hashes they're checking images against; we can't see the raw data, and we can't see the hashes, and we can't see what they're sending to their servers.
Apple is getting the entire image regardless, this happens as part of the iCloud upload process.
> There is no technical reason why this needs to exist. If they want to scan iCloud photos for something, they can do that on their servers. iCloud is not end-to-end encrypted. Law enforcement can do whatever they want with the data you send there. Since they chose the client-side route, they have to be up to something, and it all smells very fishy.
It's a hell of a lot cheaper to distribute the load onto the device than to do it on GCP. However, this whole line of thinking is ridiculous, iOS is your operating system, it can send what it likes where it likes without you knowing about it. Why does this particular thing cause concern?
> Tomorrow, it will be for any discontent against whatever government wants to oppress its people this week -- and as time goes forward, that is not just third-world countries where you don't live, it could be your own.
> Do you really want to explain to the police at your door at 3:30 in the morning why you read a website called Hacker News? This is the first step towards that reality.
https://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definit...
> Imagine I wrote a program that contained the phone numbers of people I don't like. The database is encrypted, and the only way to see if you're on that list is to install the app on your phone. The app does two things -- nothing if you're not on my list, or it sends me your location (at your expense!) if you are. Would you install that app? Absolutely not, that would be crazy. But that is basically what is bundled into iOS now.
Again, your overlooking the fact that this app is already coming from Apple the company that made iOS. They already control your phone, why would they need some additional app?
anonuser123456 2021-08-18 15:37:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
So turn off iCloud photos?
novok 2021-08-18 16:52:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]
anonuser123456 2021-08-18 18:25:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
This service exists so Apple can E2EE your data while still placating DOJ.
novok 2021-08-18 19:49:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It's a cop in your phone.
anonuser123456 2021-08-18 20:24:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
What they actually do is what is important. And what they actually do is publicly disclosed so you can make your choice appropriately.
AbjectFailure 2021-08-18 17:04:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
skinkestek 2021-08-18 17:28:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Edit: The point here is that even if Apple tries very hard to make this be only about photos about to be uploaded to the cloud, if the percentage of phones that turns off iCloud storage increases as a response to this new "snitch-on-me" feature that will be a very good argument for law enforcement to ask for a list of IMEIs that are not using iCloud, and it will also tempt them to demand that Apple start scanning all files.
anonuser123456 2021-08-18 18:28:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It's very simple. You want to upload images to iCloud? Then let your phone scan it and upload it. You don't want your images scanned? Don't upload them to iCloud.
AbjectFailure 2021-08-18 20:01:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
zepto 2021-08-18 15:24:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Yet. Have you considered that this might be a necessary precursor to making iCloud e2e?
dont__panic 2021-08-18 15:41:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
zepto 2021-08-18 16:04:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Sure. All the statements about why it’s not ok are also just speculation.
> why not release both features at the same time
That’s not how Apple typically works. They release a feature, try to make sure it works as expected and only then release the features that depend on it.
benhurmarcel 2021-08-18 20:40:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
AbjectFailure 2021-08-18 16:01:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It’s as if USPS invented a new type of envelope that is physically impossible to open for anyone whose name is not written on the outside of it. Just one caveat: before they’ll give you any of these envelopes, you must allow them to read the letters being put inside.
If your concern is someone intercepting your mail before it gets to its intended recipient, this is great news. If your threat model involves federal agencies reading your mail, you’re no better off than you would be without these fancy new envelopes.
zepto 2021-08-18 17:03:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Yes, but this isn’t snooping.
AbjectFailure 2021-08-18 19:45:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
nottorp 2021-08-18 16:02:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
IncRnd 2021-08-18 15:39:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
hkt 2021-08-18 15:44:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
IncRnd 2021-08-18 16:52:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
zepto 2021-08-18 17:03:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
IncRnd 2021-08-18 17:23:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
zepto 2021-08-18 18:05:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
This is what you were arguing. It is false.
IncRnd 2021-08-18 20:00:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It was clearly a technical statement not a privacy statement, so only superficial reading might lead one to believe it meant something that it did not.
That is why I replied that the person who replied to my comment, where I said I had argued something different, but that what he wrote was an excellent point.
So, what on earth are you so invested in that you feel the need to argue minutiae that don't apply?
zepto 2021-08-18 21:33:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
That doesn’t change anything. It may be a pre-requisite from the perspective of their business. You replied to me and I didn’t constrain my point to just technicalities.
> So, what on earth are you so invested in that you feel the need to argue minutiae that don't apply?
It does apply. I’m simply pointing out that what you said is not correct.
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:28:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Spivak 2021-08-18 15:44:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I also get the slippery slope thing since you don't really have any control over what your device does but that's been true since forever. Running some scan() method and posting matches to a URL is something that literally could have been done in the last 10 years. It's not like this tech is magically enabling something that wasn't possible before.
And I do get the using your resources argument but iPhones have had integrated DRM since forever.
The thing I don't get is why now? Surely you should have left ages ago?
jasonlotito 2021-08-18 16:51:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
You know, I could respect your opinion that this is where you draw the line, but you ignore all of Apple's history if you think this is the first step. This isn't the first step, this isn't the first chapter, this is at best the middle of the book where the plot twist happens.
No, this is clearly no the first step. This is the first step you chose to see the reality of the situation. You'll look back and you'll see how everything was paved with good intentions and how people sounding the alarm were ignored.
This isn't the first step.
andrei_says_ 2021-08-19 09:09:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]
So apart from every Apple user being treated like a proven-until-innocent owner of CP, at all times, this will (yes, a matter of time) be used for political purposes, to find and silence activists, journalists, to discredit opposition leaders, to prosecute Uyugur/Muslims/women/palestinians etc.
Do we really believe that CP owners store their collections in iCloud / google cloud / Dropbox and view them on their phones? And that this is an issue on a massive scale?
Please.
These are the most expensive phones on the market, with an incredible profit margin for Apple. The part of these devices that we actually own is a shrinking territory.
Why not have the mics on all the time in case “someone says something related to a CP ring?”
carnitas 2021-08-18 15:08:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
tpush 2021-08-18 15:14:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
No, only the ones designated for upload to iCloud.
> [...] it’s about governments forcing Apple to do things with this new weapon
Governments can already force Apple to do any kind of scanning, "weapon" being built already or not.
nottorp 2021-08-18 16:02:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
> No, only the ones designated for upload to iCloud.
How do you verify that?
theshrike79 2021-08-19 05:53:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
nottorp 2021-08-19 09:47:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
theshrike79 2021-08-19 11:21:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If Apple really is trying to sneak in a CSAM database on your phone with iCloud disabled, someone WILL catch it and raise so much hell we'll all hear it.
withinboredom 2021-08-18 15:36:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Tagbert 2021-08-18 19:19:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:11:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
merpnderp 2021-08-18 15:40:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
IncRnd 2021-08-18 15:37:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If that is what is supposed to happen, then it makes no sense for any new code to run on the device!
> Of all the things in the world to get worked up over, this is ridiculous.
Well, it is not crazy to get worked up over Apple saying they will check uploads to iCloud by checking what's on your phone - instead of simply adding code to iCloud. That seems obvious not ridiculous.
scoopertrooper 2021-08-18 15:41:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The new code calculates the hash as part of the upload process. The comparison of the hash against known CP hashes happen on the server.
> Well, it is not crazy to get worked up over Apple saying they will check uploads to iCloud by checking what's on your phone - instead of simply adding code to iCloud.
They're still doing the checks in iCloud, but the hash is being computed on the client.
IncRnd 2021-08-18 15:46:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
scoopertrooper 2021-08-18 15:51:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Mystery solved?
IncRnd 2021-08-18 16:50:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
scoopertrooper 2021-08-19 08:03:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I work in data engineering and I can tell you what I'd rather do. Having Apple's servers check hashes rather than the entire image means you can segregate the original images from the CP-checker data processing pipelines. That's a much simpler and more secure security scenario.
nobodyandproud 2021-08-18 17:05:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Maybe include children so that on first glance the reviewer will just forward to the authorities.
You get these images, store it, then you get flagged.
Now what? What’s your recourse when the FBI insists that you’re guilty, and your reputation is ruined?
There absolutely is a problem of pedophiles, but the process that Apple is using seems ripe for abuse.
vbezhenar 2021-08-18 15:45:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Whatsapp by default adds all received images into Photos. So all it takes is to send you few dozens of pictures while you're sleeping.
pshirshov 2021-08-18 15:45:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Many messengers, including Whatsapp, save all the incoming pics into camera roll by default.
merrywhether 2021-08-18 16:02:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
pshirshov 2021-08-18 16:06:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The actual problem is that they've created a great surveillance tool which will inevitably get broader capabilities and they are normalising client-side data scanning (we need to eradicate terrorism, now we need to eradicate human trafficking, and now we need to eradicate tax evasion, oh, we forgot about gay russians, hmm, what about Winnie memes?).
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 16:13:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
jazzyjackson 2021-08-18 17:16:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
One random article of many: https://money.cnn.com/2016/02/25/technology/apple-fbi-respon...
Edit: but through regulations they could probably say 'you're not allowed to sell phones without x backdoor' but maybe the government didn't want to spell out specifically what capabilities are required.
WorldMaker 2021-08-18 18:54:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Many of the arguments/fears about CSAM is that it can be widened to be a generic backdoor, but as you point out in the arguments Apple has already argued in court Apple doesn't seem to think a generic backdoor is a good idea and have strongly fought against it and CSAM seems to be entirely designed to not be capable as backdoor, and especially not a generic backdoor.
I absolutely understand the fears of false positives and whatever processes the FBI and other TLAs choose to do with the results from CSAM (though many of those concerns apply to everything the TLAs do regardless of what technical tools they have at their disposal), but I'm not sure that I understand all the fears that CSAM is a generic backdoor (in the making) given what Apple have revealed about how it is built and what Apple's quite explicit reasons seem to be to build it to entirely avoid building a generic backdoor and that everything about it seems a "thumb your nose at the FBI by doing what they ask explicitly for but not what they really want to build" by entirely building something that can't be used as a generic backdoor and is very specifically built to only a tiny explicit use case the FBI has asked for. At least from what I've seen so far.
pshirshov 2021-08-18 16:51:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 14:57:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Despite this having been a possibility for almost a decade... there's a suspicious lack of headlines of this attack occurring.
ApolloFortyNine 2021-08-18 15:13:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The biggest complaint here is clearly this is not where it'll end, and it's not a unique hash, so there will be false positives. And since it's publicly announced, this is very unlikely to catch any producers of CP, and would only catch the dumbest consumers. So it's an invasion of privacy with very little chance of having a noticeable impact.
cartoonworld 2021-08-18 17:58:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I don't think it computes a hash of the image, it's a tad more involved than that.
Simple hashing is easily evaded. They must be computing an identifier from the contents of the images in the CSAM database. This requires computational analysis on the handset or computer. If that's all that were happening that would be no problem, but of course there are management interfaces to the classifer/analyzer, catalog, backend, &c
The contents of the identifiers are purposefully opaque to prevent spoofing of the identifier database. I don't know what is included in the images; what if I take a picture at Disneyland with a trafficked person in the frame? Will that make it into the qualifier database? What is added to the CSAM signature database and why? What is the pipeline of hashesfrom NCMEC and other child-safety organizations->Apple's CSAM image classifer alarm?
>I get it, the mechanism they're using has apparent flaws, and maybe some whacko could somehow get access to your phone and start uploading things that trick the algorithm into thinking you have CP.
The CSAM analyzer could be subverted in any number of ways. I question how the CSAM identifiers are monitored for QA (I actually shudder thinking there are already humans doing this :( how unpleasant.) and the potential for harmful adversaries to repurpose this tool for other means. One contrived counterfactual: Locating pictures of Jamal Kashoggi in people's computer systems by 0-day malware. Another: Locating images of Edward Snowden. A more easily conceived notion: Locating amber alert subjects in people's phones, geofenced or not.
To my eyes, it appears we will soon have increased analysis challenges. Self analysis of device activity and functions for image scanning malware (for example) is slightly harder, we have added a blessed one with unknown characteristics running on the systems. Does this pose a challenge to system profiling? How/does this interact with battery management? Is only iCloud scanning, or is everything scanned and then only checked before being sent to iCloud? (this appears to be the case[X])
There should be user notification too. If some sicko sends me something crazy somehow, I would surely want to know so I can call the cops!!
All in all this makes me feel bad. There is not a lot of silver lining from my perspective. While the epidemic of unconscionable child abuse continues, I question the effectiveness of this approach.
I would not consider jailbreaking my iPhone but for this kind of stuff. I would like to install network and permissions monitoring software on my iPhone such as Bouncer[0], Little Snitch[1], although these are helpfully not available for iOS.
I feel grateful that I am unlikely to be affected by this image scanning software, I'm planning to continue my personal policy of never storing any pictures of any people whatsoever. I don't even store family photos this way. My Life is not units in a data warehouse.
[0] - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samruston....
[1] - https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/index.html
[X] - Apple's Whitepaper: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...
randomdata 2021-08-18 15:15:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
They aren't, but the blame is misguided. This isn't a problem with Apple. What is Apple going to do if they do detect something identified as CSAM on your device? Refuse to sell you another? Oh well. The real worry is what other parties will do if they get ahold of the information. That is what needs to be fixed. Apple is exposing the underlying problem, not causing the problem themselves.
scoopertrooper 2021-08-18 15:25:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
randomdata 2021-08-18 15:39:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
scoopertrooper 2021-08-18 15:48:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If a pedophile uploads CP to the internet and the host finds CP they call the police.
Both seem like reasonable responses to me.
cartoonworld 2021-08-18 18:41:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
This will violate my IT device usage policy! Apple is not my IT department!! We have a ZERO TOLERANCE IT device usage policy. By not calling the local police department after one violation, we violate the policy. There is also a form which must be signed before HR (Girlfriend) so they can be present on the call to LE or else be subject to disciplinary action up to and including termination.
randomdata 2021-08-18 15:54:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]
scoopertrooper 2021-08-18 16:46:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]
randomdata 2021-08-18 16:47:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
scoopertrooper 2021-08-19 02:20:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
randomdata 2021-08-19 02:47:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The general sentiment does appear to be that the laws are misguided. That does not necessarily mean repeal is necessary. Augmentation may also provide a solution that satisfies their concerns. However, that is moving well beyond the topic at hand. There is no indication I can find that some kind of change is controversial. There is clear worry about the status quo based on the potential outcome of what information Apple may glean.
What remains is that Apple isn't anyone's real concern. An inanimate corporation can't do much to you. Apple is simply bringing attention to what actually concerns people, which is something that was already there all along.
ByteWelder 2021-08-18 14:41:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
That said, if I had to chose between a Google Android phone and an Apple phone, I'd still pick the Apple one. Luckily there are more choices these days.
svavs 2021-08-18 15:11:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
That's the nice part of Apple's ecosystem - its pretty simple and requires minimum intervention.
blakeinate 2021-08-18 16:47:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I purchased my first iPhone since the 3G this year, and it is currently for sale on swappa. I am willing to compromise on a slightly less polished UI and subpar camera to get the UX of android back; at least for me, iOS was lacking many features I could consider essential.
RussianCow 2021-08-18 15:14:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ziml77 2021-08-18 15:35:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
For similar reasons, I don't self-host important services like email despite having my own domain. If shit goes wrong, I want the company I'm paying to have their people take care of it. I don't want to have to rush to fix it myself.
mylons 2021-08-18 14:48:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
alangibson 2021-08-18 15:34:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mylons 2021-08-18 15:57:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rcMgD2BwE72F 2021-08-18 16:44:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mylons 2021-08-18 22:51:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rcMgD2BwE72F 2021-08-19 15:53:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
RussianCow 2021-08-18 16:14:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
* The Clock app doesn't let you set a snooze length? Seriously?!
* Not having a notification LED or some other indicator really sucks. I might set my phone on the counter while I'm doing other things, and with Android, it was nice to be able to look up and see if I've gotten something without walking up to the phone and checking. (I know Apple will likely never implement this because it's a great pitch for their watch.)
* Face ID is slow and inconsistent compared to a fingerprint reader (especially during COVID), and I'm bummed that Apple ditched the latter. It works well about 80% of the time, and the other 20% I'm that crazy-looking person that's making faces at his phone trying to get it to unlock.
* If you had any sort of media app open previously and then connect some Bluetooth headphones, the media controls for that app open up and take up most of the lock screen, and there is no way to swipe them away; you have to kill the app to get them to disappear.
* I miss the inline notification controls. On Android, apps can give their notifications extra buttons, so you can do things like delete an email right from the notifications bar without having to open the app.
* My friend and I regularly send each other voice memos. First of all, the built-in voice memo feature in iMessage is atrocious (no seek and you have to restart from the beginning if you leave the screen), so we use the Voice Memos app to send each other audio files. Except, when you play an audio file inline through either iMessage or Mail, the screen will still turn off and lock, which pauses the file. You have to save it to Files, then open it via the Files app to ensure that it continues playing in the background. How are you supposed to know this?!
* If your iCloud storage is close to full, Apple will continually notify you every few days via your phone and email, and there is no way to disable these notifications.
* Needing a special charger sucks. Everything else I own is either USB-C or microUSB at this point, but my iPhone needs its own charging cable that nothing else uses.
* All of the special treatment that only Apple's apps get is frustrating. For instance, why does only Apple's Clock app get a special timer UX on the lock screen, and everyone else's has to use a notification? Why does only Safari support ad blockers? And why is the camera button on the lock screen limited to the built-in Camera app? They really push their own apps with these artificial benefits, which detracts from the plethora of apps in the App Store.
* Syncing files (in both directions) without iCloud is a pain, and I'm not going to pay for an iCloud subscription. There are lots of different ways to achieve this, but none of them are as easy as simply using SyncThing on Android.
Even though Android is lacking in certain areas, I find the UX to be a lot more consistent than that of iOS, and I would take the consistency and flexibility of Android over all of Apple's corner cases and attempts to predict how I will use my device. But again, that's my personal preference, and to each their own.
(Sorry, this turned out to be much longer than I expected. I guess I'm more frustrated by iOS than I realized!)
ocdtrekkie 2021-08-18 15:05:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
runjake 2021-08-18 14:45:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 14:48:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Also, as an iPhone user, contrary to the recent Hacker News fight, I actually view this CSAM scanning with a sign of hope, because this hints that we could get end-to-end encryption on iCloud Storage. The CSAM scanning is rumored to be just a prerequisite to get the government to shut up with their biggest critique of E2E, so that Apple can then turn it on.
If I can get E2E storage from iCloud but accept CSAM scanning on my device to satisfy the law... I'm OK with that choice. You might not, in which case, Android (and I'll probably buy a backup Android phone "just in case").
sigmar 2021-08-18 15:06:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
What good is E2E encryption when they can scan your client with a backdoor? All Apple is doing with this hashing is giving themselves plausible deniability when this access gets abused down the road. "Oh we didn't know they would use those hashes to arrest those protesters, we couldn't have foreseen this"
twobitshifter 2021-08-18 16:19:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
sigmar 2021-08-18 16:52:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
withinboredom 2021-08-18 15:42:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Spivak 2021-08-18 15:49:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:10:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Also you are aware Google Photos, Facebook, etc. do scanning anyway and have for almost a decade?
bastardoperator 2021-08-18 16:17:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
For me it boils down to ecosystem and integration. I can have a fragmented set of devices and tools, or I can deal with CSAM having literally zero impact on me.
I also have an M1 laptop, it's insane that this little MacBook Air with 16GB ram is walking all over a 16'inch Macbook Pro with 64GB ram.
netsec_burn 2021-08-18 14:40:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 14:42:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
To make AOSP "usable" for my life, I need to install the Play Store. At which point I've already lost and would prefer an iPhone for my privacy.
RMPR 2021-08-18 17:55:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]
To be fair you don't need to, I use Aurora Store, they have a guest mode where you don't need to register any account.
giancarlostoro 2021-08-18 15:38:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
bengale 2021-08-18 15:42:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]
TrueGeek 2021-08-18 17:11:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
0x0 2021-08-18 14:48:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 14:49:48 +0000 UTC [ - ]
On iOS and iPadOS, they will implement the iCloud Photos CSAM scanning, but Apple left out macOS as having that for now. Rumoredly according to GitHub reverse-engineers of the system, it's due to the mathematical precision of the NeuralHash algorithm being processor-dependent on ARM and not Intel.
0x0 2021-08-18 14:51:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
> These features are coming later this year in updates to iOS 15, iPadOS 15, watchOS 8, and macOS Monterey.
tpush 2021-08-18 15:09:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
"Next, iOS and iPadOS will use new applications of cryptography to help limit the spread of CSAM online, while designing for user privacy."
That implies macOS isn't getting the CSAM scanning stuff (yet?).
djrogers 2021-08-18 15:04:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
> iOS and iPadOS will use new applications of cryptography to help limit the spread of CSAM online
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 14:53:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
For now, the security experts looking at this say that the nudity detection model is on all platforms, but the database matching in iCloud Photos is only on iOS and iPadOS and it's unclear whether it will come to macOS.
rvz 2021-08-18 15:51:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If true, it's highly probable that Apple can just port it to macOS and have it work especially for the Apple Silicon line up rather than Intel.
But only Apple knows. But so far, it seems like ignoring the M1 hype was the smart thing do.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 2021-08-18 15:04:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
NationalPark 2021-08-18 15:18:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
nicce 2021-08-18 15:30:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
NationalPark 2021-08-18 15:41:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
nicce 2021-08-18 15:48:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
thealistra 2021-08-18 15:17:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
withinboredom 2021-08-18 15:39:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
dont__panic 2021-08-18 15:56:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 2021-08-18 15:22:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
zepto 2021-08-18 15:26:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Yeri 2021-08-18 15:42:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Now, it's only logical that you may share certain interests, so why not show ads for things they bought/googled for to their contacts?
bengale 2021-08-18 15:41:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
jdgoesmarching 2021-08-18 16:03:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
misiti3780 2021-08-18 15:19:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 2021-08-18 15:23:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
exhilaration 2021-08-18 15:48:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
salzig 2021-08-18 15:20:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]
guerrilla 2021-08-18 15:11:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 2021-08-18 15:25:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
laurentlbm 2021-08-18 15:18:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
cassianoleal 2021-08-18 15:18:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
macOS does _something_ related to this system. It's unclear what though.
I agree with how impressive the M1 is. I've replaced my 16" fully specced i9 with a 13" M1 Air. The only thing I sometimes miss is the larger screen but not by much.
corndoge 2021-08-18 15:43:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Respectfully, it is there. You are not. Which is fine - I prefer a Mac for general purpose computer use, word processing, web browsing, that sort of thing. But Linux can do these things just as well, it just requires you to configure them, which is strictly a "you" constraint and not a failure of the system.
BlueParanoia 2021-08-18 17:33:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Linux is not necessary a bad system, but usability (degree of effort, burden of knowledge, misuse risk) are absolutely a core determination on where or not a piece of technology is "there yet"
fsflover 2021-08-18 17:41:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I don't understand what you mean. My non-technical relatives use Linux just fine. There is no "burden of knowledge".
fartcannon 2021-08-18 15:24:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
You're financially supporting the creation of an Orwellian dystopia.
artursapek 2021-08-18 15:26:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:25:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
28220968 2021-08-18 15:35:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The whole premise is that Google and Facebook and everyone else are just doing this on the unencrypted photos you upload, in their cloud, with their own (presumably, but correct me if I'm wrong) undocumented algorithms and datasets.
Now here comes Apple, documenting almost everything except the dataset itself, and everyone is freaking out because it's happening on your own device. But then it's encrypting the whole thing and uploading it to Apple where they presumably do no additional scanning.
What is the actual difference if it's being looked for on-device vs. by the provider? Supposedly in preparation for a bigger push of encryption of the photos themselves, if they are not already encrypted in the cloud.
Am I missing something more than "but it's happening on-device!"?
marcus_holmes 2021-08-18 16:07:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Also, it's actually pretty easy to mess with Android and get it un-googled. Google don't make most Android phones, so there's less hardware-level enforcement of rules, and more independent alternatives. This is less so for Apple devices. If Apple decides to do something you don't like to your phone, you are SOL; you can only accept it or ditch Apple and switch to Android/something else.
nicce 2021-08-18 16:11:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Well, technically this is still true. Files you are putting to iCloud by yourself voluntarily are not staying in your iPhone in the first hand. Everything which is against this, is only speculation currently.
marcus_holmes 2021-08-18 18:25:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
nicce 2021-08-18 18:38:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If you don't trust that, that is another story. System is full black box.
marcus_holmes 2021-08-19 09:35:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
28220968 2021-08-19 13:25:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Am I missing something more than "but it's happening on-device!"?
Your answer is "no".
nicce 2021-08-18 16:07:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
People think that this kind of capability was not there already, while it was. The simplest example case is normal iCloud sync. It scans your files and gets metadata, finally comparing to cloud to know which files to sync.
Other concern is, that this can be easily expanded to other kind of content, or whole device (outside of iCloud files). While, this sounds like valid concern, government who can force this change, could have forced it already. "Technology does not exist" is not valid excuse, never was. There are pretty expensive consults used by politics to prove these excuses otherwise.
nicce 2021-08-18 15:28:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Keats 2021-08-18 16:04:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]
nicce 2021-08-18 16:08:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fartcannon 2021-08-18 15:32:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:34:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Linux is incredible... and still unusable for many everyday apps and workflows, and simply not an option for many people including myself. I've tried Linux distributions since 2011, they aren't there yet.
nicce 2021-08-18 16:00:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I have actually totally dumped Windows recently (I have tried it past 5 years), because now Linux is getting very close for everything I need, and this same applies for many people. Can you give some examples which aren't there yet?
fartcannon 2021-08-18 15:43:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Support the continued freedom you enjoyed in your youth for future generations.
intricatedetail 2021-08-18 16:33:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rhn_mk1 2021-08-18 15:03:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
That's a false dichotomy. There are competitors offering various levels of maturity and functionality. Jolla exists, PinePhone, Xiaomi, Librem 5, dumb phones, POTS landline, no phone...
And yes, Linux on the desktop is also a valid choice. It most likely won't track you either.
account_created 2021-08-18 15:06:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rhn_mk1 2021-08-18 20:15:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:06:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I don't think you know what you are talking about when you mentioned Xiaomi as an option. That would be among the dumbest options you could possibly choose.
Linux on the desktop is a valid choice, but as I said above, don't tell me to switch to it, it's just not practical in my life. I've tried over a dozen distributions since 2011 and probably over fifty releases of them, and Linux isn't there.
mateuszf 2021-08-18 15:17:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Tried that yesterday on CalyxOs with anonymous MicroG account and my banking app works fine. No problem with contactless nfc payments.
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:21:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Also you can't use any paid apps with this method.
mateuszf 2021-08-18 15:27:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Regarding the second point - that's true. I've heard there are some plans to add payments to the Aurora store/F-Droid (which are alternative app stores) but right now you can't use paid apps.
I consider this to be a plus though - gives me a chance to switch to open-source / self-hosted apps.
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:37:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mateuszf 2021-08-18 16:45:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rhn_mk1 2021-08-18 15:57:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
You don't get to dismiss others' concerns by saying "it's a choice", and at the same time dismiss choices others present...
rvz 2021-08-18 15:40:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
For Desktop, if I have to choose between macOS CSAM spyware of paying users or the Linux ecosystem and its tiny userbase of unpaid users I would go for using and targeting the paid users since they are the ones paying the bills and thats where the money is.
For smartphone alternatives, the phones themselves are still immature as well as the Linux phone software ecosystem which is again still light years behind. If they can't even run the same Android apps on modern Android devices, then it is close to no chance.
If they don't hurry up, Google Fuchsia will steam-roll them silently.
> I've tried over a dozen distributions since 2011 and probably over fifty releases of them, and Linux isn't there.
Likewise, with the GUI software I'm writing, 'Defining Linux support' is something that is not worth doing given that there are tons of distros out there and by selecting one or two distro's there will always be an endless amount of people asking to support X distro or Y distro.
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:42:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
There was a major game developer (sadly forgetting the name) who decided to support Linux as a test around 2018ish. The Linux users were only a few percent of their users but ~20% of the support tickets. They said never again.
imwillofficial 2021-08-18 15:35:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
pshirshov 2021-08-18 15:50:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I believe that, for example, anticorruption activists and gay people in Russia who may be subjected to state-imposed surveillance won't agree with you. Apple won't leave even the russian market in case the government demands to expand capabilities of the system. And they will never leave chinese market.
> macOS doesn't scan
I'm afraid I have some bad news for you:
"Features to detect child abuse material stored on iCloud coming in updates to US users iOS 15, iPadOS 15, watchOS 8, and macOS Monterey."
BugsJustFindMe 2021-08-18 15:54:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Who will? Google? Microsoft? HP? Dell? Huawei or Xiaomi or Lenovo (lol jk)? Which computer or phone manufacturers or service providers refuse to do business in Russia and China?
pshirshov 2021-08-18 16:03:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Fortunately for now you have some escape hatches.
I believe that it would be a smart move for everyone to stop paying for nooses for their own gallows and start investing into privacy. There are some realistic ways to do it, just buy a damn Fairphone for a no-brainer start.
BugsJustFindMe 2021-08-18 16:35:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I know they did briefly after some attacks, but I also know that they had very little market share to lose at the time and have subsequently worked to get back in. Do you have a good summary of their current position there?
pshirshov 2021-08-18 16:56:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Nope, why would I? Also I'm pro-google, just pointed to a fact I know.
mapgrep 2021-08-18 15:38:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
For phone I’m very interested in /e/os and the one phone you can get new with it preinstalled, the Teracube 2 (wired has a Teracube review of the very similar previous model).
I am looking at photoprism running on a home server (intel nuc) synced via PhotoSync (can sync photos via sftp). It actually looks really cool and uses tensorflow to do some sort of AI photo sorting locally.
By the way, while there’s a learning curve to this stuff, it feels very empowering and educational once you’ve put in the work. It feels like the future. Compute and storage is cheap. I think hosting things on your own server is the inevitable future. Once you’re set up it just hums along. This stuff will eventually be sold in appliance form (see Helm email server for the model).
pshirshov 2021-08-18 15:36:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I really hope that Pixel 6 will have better camera and bigger screen and also would be supported by Lineage.
PC: I have an AMD desktop with Gentoo and going to buy Purism laptop later.
Watch: I don't use them. Actually was going to buy next Apple Watch but...
Apple Pay: no good replacement, though contactless cards aren't THAT bad.
Apple Carplay: phone+organic maps.
mapgrep 2021-08-18 16:13:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
pshirshov 2021-08-18 16:52:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The promise of locked bootloader. Later I learned that Lineage does the same job, they sign their builds for AVB. Though their documentation sucks and forums full of idiots screaming "NEVER LOCK YOUR BOOTLOADER".
Regarding "privacy" - I'm not really sure how much work is done in Calyx. Well, you may choose cloudflare dns out of the box and you have a "firewall" (just a better fronted to android permissions API). Though you can perfectly get that on Lineage. Lineage has its telemetry but you can switch it off.
Actually I'm thinking about building my own lineage-based distro (with proper call recorder built in), that's not that hard. Though for now I don't want to invest too much time into that.
mapgrep 2021-08-18 17:26:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
28194608 2021-08-18 14:06:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ByteWelder 2021-08-18 14:10:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Manjaro Linux has rolling releases, so you get updates more swiftly than with other Linux flavours. LineageOS (regular or microG variant) get weekly updates if I recall correctly.
Pixel is a solid hardware choice in my book.
RealStickman_ 2021-08-18 15:43:48 +0000 UTC [ - ]
kasbah 2021-08-18 14:21:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
bboylen 2021-08-18 14:29:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]
A big kicker was opening the default Weather app on my Samsung Galaxy S9 and seeing an inappropriate ad that took up 1/3 of the screen. Absolutely shameful that they would be so desperate for cash to include such ad space in their flagship phone.
Although the recent news about Apple has me questioning the switch...
howinteresting 2021-08-18 14:20:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
https://mjtsai.com/blog/2020/02/17/the-paywalled-garden-ios-...
A Google Pixel has far fewer ads than an iPhone these days.
0x000000001 2021-08-18 15:56:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
howinteresting 2021-08-18 16:03:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
emaro 2021-08-18 14:33:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I try to use open source software where possible and after the endless stream of depressing news about working conditions and environmental impact of our juicy tech I'm ready to pay more for less to get (relatively) fair and open hardware too.
Edit: Considering Linux phones like Pinephone or Librem too, but they seem not ready to me yet and they emphasise much more on technical freedom and less on fair production.
tannhaeuser 2021-08-18 15:52:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I can live without free GPS navi but I'm wondering what to do about the few cases where you need a "trusted" device (a misnomer if there ever was one), such as banking push TANs or other mobile banking TFA apps, TOTP apps, vaccination pass apps or Covid contact tracing/registration apps (I've managed to evade the latter kind of apps until now).
danhor 2021-08-18 17:56:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The contact tracing apps in europe interoperate, you can get the CCTG app from F-Droid and it works on AOSP (also includes vaccination pass storage). There are also others available.
lettergram 2021-08-18 14:29:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I’m considering a Librem 5. Which has more cpu power and battery.
The appeal to me is really getting off any major tech platform. Further, you can disconnect the components via switches — iE unplug the microphone. That being said, I can’t even use Signal on them without some major configurations.
https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=13728
I have also considered the “freedom phone”. But my understand is it’s just Graphene + process isolation on a slightly modified hardware. Until it’s heavily vetted I wouldn’t use it though.
And ugh yeah, that’s about it.
sphinxcdi 2021-08-18 20:38:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
No, it's not. You may be confusing it with another company with a similar name selling devices with GrapheneOS and various apps installed. Both are not associated with GrapheneOS, by the way.
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 14:36:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
seba_dos1 2021-08-18 15:14:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
josteink 2021-08-18 15:17:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Sadly bridging Signal into a matrix home-server and just using a matrix-client from the PinePhone/Librem is probably the simplest option.
acheron 2021-08-18 14:48:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If you’re actually going to switch to using open source hardware phones and whatnot, then good luck I guess. I can see where more progress in that area would lead to general improvements, so it’s not entirely tilting at windmills.
fartcannon 2021-08-18 15:38:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Popegaf 2021-08-18 15:35:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Therefore Android phones with custom ROMs are the way forward for privacy conscious people. It's easy to mock if you aren't serious about getting away from walled gardens.
traceroute66 2021-08-18 15:11:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Amen to that !
To modestly paraphrase an old saying....
With Apple, you buy the product. With Google, you are the product.
fartcannon 2021-08-18 15:39:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
kwerk 2021-08-18 14:15:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
- cloud backups: testing iMazing Wi-Fi daily backups to NAS. Tested a clean restore to an iPad that was perfect. The daily backups aren’t running consistently yet but likely has to do with power save settings.
- Photos: syncing with Synology Photos. Backup seems fine (40k of 65k pictures so far). The app leaves a lot to be desired vs Apple Photos.
Will test Calyx / Graphene on a Pixel at some point but not likely to pass the wife test.
helen___keller 2021-08-18 14:50:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Use FOSS when possible, minimize all other internet-connected devices when FOSS is not available.
I actually still plan to continue using iPhone as a necessary evil until PinePhone, Librem, or similar are production ready (as my use cases demand). But I don't trust the device, my world doesn't revolve around the device, and that's kind of the only way to live with having devices running proprietary, untrustworthy code.
pshirshov 2021-08-18 15:55:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Seems like you have no such excuse anymore.
Also: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_5 + https://calyxos.org/
sjaak 2021-08-18 14:32:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Any people here with experience with one?
yashasolutions 2021-08-18 14:36:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rkangel 2021-08-18 15:04:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
My only other question is Linux driver support. There was a brief mention about fingerprint scanner in Linux, but I really appreciate that Thinkpads under something like Fedora just work out of the box. Hopefully Framework will have similar support - it seems like the sort of laptop linux hackers would like to be using!
nrp 2021-08-18 18:17:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rPlayer6554 2021-08-18 14:37:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
cfeduke 2021-08-18 15:16:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I haven't owned a PC laptop in several years - the last one I tried was a System76 with an abysmal keyboard. Turns out I need to type to have a functional laptop!
I ordered one of these Framework machines today, should ship in September. Seems promising. I am hoping that things just work after I install Linux on it and I can get down to writing code with minimal setup and configuration.
alpaca128 2021-08-18 15:41:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Apparently Linux runs everything out of the box except the fingerprint reader. It's still unknown whether there'll be an official fix and when.
rgrmrts 2021-08-18 14:45:48 +0000 UTC [ - ]
My plan is to use it as my daily-non-work development computer. I just started playing around with NixOS on the server side and will likely use NixOS on my Framework laptop.
It’s an exciting concept and appears to be well executed. I’ll reserve full judgement til I’ve used it for a while.
prophesi 2021-08-18 15:02:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Though I'll still the say the crux of the issue is that the majority of users _won't_ have iCloud Photos disabled, and thus have their privacy violated.
kwerk 2021-08-18 16:22:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
prophesi 2021-08-18 18:03:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Nextcloud has https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/facerecognition which integrates with their CardDav, but I don't think my Pine64 with only 2gb of RAM would be able to run that.
swozey 2021-08-18 15:32:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ByteWelder 2021-08-18 15:36:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I noticed a couple of comments where people were wondering what the alternatives were. With this thread, we can possibly save people some research time, as I've spent quite a few hours in the past week or so.
MeinBlutIstBlau 2021-08-18 16:43:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I just use windows cause it's easy and everything almost always works on it.
swozey 2021-08-18 17:05:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
A whole lot of work to use osx on a machine that doesn't constantly throttle, but not enough work for me to justify spending $3-5k on the apple hardware I need.
And honestly I hadn't used nix on the desktop in years, almost all of the apps I needed work natively - the Zoom client even looks exactly like the OSX/Windows zoom. I'm slowly de-osxing myself.
fsflover 2021-08-18 16:47:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
rootusrootus 2021-08-18 14:44:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Daedren 2021-08-18 15:06:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Don't put your data in places where you can't export data (Apple Notes for instance), or ideally places that aren't cross-platform.
This allows me the freedom to move between OSes, and most importantly, have more choice in my products. Getting stuck in an ecosystem is exactly what Apple and Samsung want, and it's very anti-consumer in the end.
istingray 2021-08-18 15:33:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Didn't think it was possible because of T2 but then found the "T2 Linux Community" here: https://t2linux.org/
They have a step by step guide for Ubuntu and a helpful Discord group to walk me through.
I dug into Purism Librem and System76 Laptops. Dual booting Ubuntu buys me some time.
2. I also disabled iCloud and started NextCloud on a third party host. It's pretty clunky, still getting that setup. In the open source world it seems like there's less opportunities to pay for quality. Take my money!!
arael 2021-08-19 10:37:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
tarkin2 2021-08-18 15:22:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
moistbar 2021-08-18 16:11:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
geophile 2021-08-18 17:28:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]
There are no good iPhone alternatives. I now don't trust either Google or Apple on privacy, for different reasons. As a practical matter, Apple is probably better for me, as I find it very unlikely that governments forcing Apple to do their bidding are going to be interested in me, personally.
I am relying on the Apple cloud, and I hate it. I have mp3 files for all my music, and I will soon stop relying on Apple for music completely. I take photos on my phone, and they go to the cloud. I think I'm stuck there, but again, I do have my own copies (via download to my wife's Mac). Ideally, I could get photos from my phone to my Linux laptop directly, but I don't know of a good way to do that.
ravenstine 2021-08-18 14:43:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Honestly, as much as I go to extreme lengths to limit invasions of my privacy, short of going full Stallman, it would take a lot for me to chuck my M1 MacBook Air. I know people say they have a non-Apple laptop that is as good, but that has not been my experience. Every PC laptop I have owned has ended up being a pile of crap for one reason or another. Usually the hardware is flimsy, plastic gets warped and scratched, it gets slower over time, etc. I have never had such experiences with the Macbooks I have owned other than my keyboard giving out on my 2015 MBP a few months ago. This is coming from a former hardcore Linux user who used to look down on people with Macs.
(that said, I would love recommendations on comparable laptops for the day that may come where I ditch Apple)
I really hope that I can prevent or block CSAM on my current Macbook if it's being adopted on macOS.
istingray 2021-08-18 15:41:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
"These features are coming later this year in updates to iOS 15, iPadOS 15, watchOS 8, and macOS Monterey."
gjsman-1000 2021-08-18 15:54:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
"Next, iOS and iPadOS will use new applications of cryptography to help limit the spread of CSAM online, while designing for user privacy."
istingray 2021-08-18 22:19:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fbnlsr 2021-08-18 15:44:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The thinkpad cost me less than half the price of a Macbook, and I was able to change its keyboard (for a QWERTY one) and add 8 GB of RAM in less than an hour (and for less than $100).
Pop!_OS is amazing. It feels close enough to MacOS that the adaptation period was almost non existent, and it's been running flawlessly for more than a year now.
lucasyvas 2021-08-18 14:30:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
There are decent custom ROMs for Pixel already mentioned, and the ThinkPad line even ships with full Linux support now so not too bad at all there.
As for cloud services, I'm still stuck on Google. I've been putting off switching because it's a lot of work.
2OEH8eoCRo0 2021-08-18 14:23:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
tandem5000 2021-08-18 14:36:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mtalantikite 2021-08-18 14:34:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If anyone has suggestions for a small, minimal phone I can still run Signal on I'd love to hear it.
city41 2021-08-18 15:51:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
desktop: custom PC running Ubuntu MATE 20
laptop: Thinkpad running Ubuntu MATE 20
Phone: Android Moto E
Streaming Device: Roku 3
Car: Android Auto
watch: no watch
tablet: Amazon Fire
I find it interesting that the Moto E is the cheapest smartphone you can get in America. Comcast gave it to me free with my plan. Yet it's totally fine, meets all of my needs no problem. Only thing I did was add an SD card for more storage. Similarly with the Amazon Fire tablet, it was only $75 and easily meets all of my needs. Ignoring the privacy implications of Amazon/Google ran Android devices, Android OS is impressive.
eblanshey 2021-08-18 14:29:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mateuszf 2021-08-18 14:44:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
- Phone - Pixel 4a + CalyxOs
- Watch - https://www.withings.com/pl/en/steel-hr
jivings 2021-08-18 14:50:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I also changed my photos to backup to Nextcloud, which I'm self-hosting.
I wrote about switching from Google Photos to Nextcloud here: https://blog.leavemealone.app/moving-from-google-photos-to-n...
elliekelly 2021-08-18 14:28:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
baby-yoda 2021-08-18 15:39:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
- Good/great camera, 8+ MP; Front facing optional. Dedicated shutter button/quick access from sleep
- GPS and HERE maps
- Simple, native "apps" - Phone, Alarm, Calendar, Contacts, threaded SMS/MMS, weather, podcasts, flashlight. Email optional
- High quality screen (3", OLED, high PPI)
- 4G connectivity, 5G optional
- Tethering/Hotspot capability
- USB-C
- Candybar form factor with number pad would work, but would prefer an E71/72 reboot
Gys 2021-08-18 14:34:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mark_l_watson 2021-08-18 18:14:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I am still considering stepping back, switching to a Pixel 5 from the CalyxOS organization, rely on my wife's iPhone while on road trips, start using my GPU Linux laptop from System 76 as my main driver, and fall back on using ProtonMail with my email domain.
I did recently remove virtually everything from my iPhone except Freedom, text/email, Chess, Go, Music, podcast, and Safari. I think my phone should just be a phone, more or less.
I am not so disappointed with Apple's CSAM functionality as I am about their longer term trend. They are starting with something that has wide support, but who knows what is next.
tomxor 2021-08-18 16:27:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Desktop: Debian + i3wm is where I landed and stayed...
If anything were to change in future it would be Debian, but I'd be taking my setup with me (few dot files), which is a nice capability to have.
This is easier if you are a developer (not an iOS developer ofc), because most work on the CLI is just so much easier on Linux. I tried The BSDs at first, various Linux distros, and ultimately settled on Debian after using Ubuntu for a while. This is an opinionated area, and no distro is perfect, but I settled on Debian due to it's ubiquity as a base for other distros and therefore familiarity and wealth of support and knowledge, but also because it's the less opinionated base you can add whatever you want to... I also like their focus on openness.
My recommendation to anyone who _likes_, (or liked) Apple desktop and UI: don't try to replace it or replicate it in Linux, you will be upset. Learn to love something else: control, and the permanence and stability it brings to your life. If you want a ready made full desktop environment they exist, KDE and GNOME, but in a way they are just another Apple, dictating and evolving how you do things with each update - It's probably easier when you first switch, but you may eventually find yourself moving towards something simpler and less shiny... less is more, they are just window decorations at the end of the day, most of it is bloat.
If you do any kind of media, video, audio, raster, vector work... I wont lie and pretend this is a comparable alternative, you will need probably need either WINE or Windows, unless you know exactly what you need and know of a well supported program for Linux, e.g blender is supposed to be a pretty good contender for the proprietary 3D packages these days. While I like Linux, I agree Inkscape and Gimp are trash compared to Photoshop... i don't even like adobe products but I've used both, and the former are an exercise in pain endurance - they are last resorts, don't expect them to replace.
Traster 2021-08-18 14:58:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
HanaShiratori 2021-08-18 15:21:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
yabones 2021-08-18 15:46:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Phone - Nokia 225 (dumbphone) - enough to call 911 or my partner/mother/pizza shop.
I'm keeping my iPhone SE, but it's essentially going to stay in one or two rooms at home, only used for things that need a mobile device.
The key is adjusting your expectations. I don't get apps at easy reach anymore, but I don't need them and never should have had them in the first place. My personality is far too prone to addiction, and physical control is easier than self control. That it's going to have a positive impact on my privacy/security/safety is just a nice plus.
mullingitover 2021-08-18 15:05:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
vorpalhex 2021-08-18 15:16:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mullingitover 2021-08-18 15:30:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
istingray 2021-08-18 15:45:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
floatingatoll 2021-08-18 19:04:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
"I'm switching because of Apple's surveillance of my files so they can find child porn to report to the police"
But that's also much less likely to win you converts to your cause, which is why we never see anyone saying it so clearly in these conversations. Which is more important to you, being completely honest about your beliefs, or evangelizing others to believe them too?
mullingitover 2021-08-18 15:58:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If you have children and you explain to the other parents that you're just really passionate about privacy and are dumping all your iDevices for...reasons...your kids are probably not going to have friends come over to visit much after that.
swiley 2021-08-18 16:50:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
That was a lot of work, I had to write my own power management service so I could get notifications during sleep without draining the battery excessively and there are still tons of bugs and little hacks I've written. If that scares you please just switch to a trackphone because smartphone software authors will continue taking advantage of you after you switch to something else.
ho_schi 2021-08-18 15:35:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Phone: Pixel 4a (only regular sized smartphone available not from Apple)
Carplay? Never used.
Apply Pay? Never used.
Maps: Garmin, which works autonomous minus the GPS. Or OSMAND or OrganicMaps.
The problem with Pixel is, it is from Google therefore you don't have GNU/Linux but Google/Android. Which comes with a lot drawbacks, for example you need to switch on Miracast support in the bootloader.
traceroute66 2021-08-18 15:00:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I already had a deep mistrust for "cloud" services irrespective of who the provider is. My position on "cloud services" meant I have never used any Apple cloud services.
I see no reason to switch away from what is otherwise a very high quality platform. This is perhaps especially the case on the phone side where the overall security and privacy in general is better than Android.
vbezhenar 2021-08-18 15:41:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]
My PC future plans would be:
Smartphone: Google Pixel, optionally with AOSP, but I'm not sure.
Laptop: most powerful Dell Precision with Fedora Linux. It should have Nvidia GPU. I'll install Windows in KVM and with GPU passthrough I'll be able to play some games.
SergeAx 2021-08-18 17:05:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I develop on PHP, Python, Kotlin and Go natively, using WSL for things like Ansible.
Phone: any recent Android with medium privacy settings on Google services. I allow location tags on Photos and location history on Maps, because it is quite useful. I tried to regulary change GAID, but untargeted ads became really awful, so I am keeping it for now.
Laptop: I don't always use it, but when I do - it is Lenovo X1 Carbon with Windows 10.
Fitness bracelet: cheap monochrome Xiaomi (v3, I think). I am interested in step count and sleep monitoring, it is good enough for me.
SergeAx 2021-08-18 17:06:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ostenning 2021-08-18 16:11:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
What I want to see is a user-friendly productivity app suite as good as macOS for linux:
- Calendar - Mail - Preview
These apps need feature parity with the macOS, need to “just work” with sane defaults and need to be well thought out with an equivalent UX.
Don’t get me wrong, I ran Manjaro and Arch for a long time and I would love to go back to them as my daily workhorse, but the app support isnt nearly as good.
Even apps like Spotify bring my linux T480 thinkpad with 32GB ram to its knees because Spotify doesnt give a shit about Linux. So as a result I have to find shitty second class apps that dont have full features, are buggy or dont work. Then I end up spending more time trying to get my computer to run apps properly than actually use it for its intended purpose.
seltzered_ 2021-08-18 14:46:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
This led to finding a combination of:
- An intel tablet - specifically HP makes one called the Elite X2 G4 (now G8) which has a 3k2k 13" display. Running Ubuntu which isn't perfect but tolerable - I keep a list of workflows replacements (primarily from mac to linux) here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/148zTJUwfVv9xfDcpSoH3...
- A 'tiny tower stand', which allows one to prop the tablet close to the face. Other stands (e.g. roost) don't enable this. It's been sold out this year but hoping they come back.
- A nutype f1 keyboard (wired usb-c or wireless), and an apple trackpad (wired lightning or wireless). The combination still fits within the footprint of the tablet, eventually want to make a case for it for easy carry.
Again the motivation is finding something more ergonomic and portable enough to use at another desk. Do I recommend it? Depends on your intentions and time available. Mine are just around exploring ergonomics.
gambler 2021-08-18 15:09:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-teracube-2e/
Anyone used this thing?
bnastic 2021-08-18 15:33:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]
And as I was typing this, my iPhone popped up a warning that the websites mandated by my kid’s school have all been compromised and offered assistance to update the passwords on there. Good job, Apple (and we’ll see how image scanning saga unfolds… I might just switch to OneDrive for photos, but it’s a question if it’s any better in that regard)
ajay-b 2021-08-18 14:22:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
robertwt7 2021-08-18 15:08:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Thinking about moving everything seems to be so much work on top of my daily job and side projects.
Unhappy with apple’s decision, but also feel like I’m stuck atm
istingray 2021-08-18 15:50:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Once you disconnect from iCloud, or have one non-Apple device, the whole ecosystem benefit starts to unravel.
tw600040 2021-08-18 16:50:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
lazzurs 2021-08-18 15:47:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I already have my data in Nextcloud so that makes the switch easier but some things like WhatsApp are going to be harder and for that it appears the Matrix bridge is the thing.
What ever path I go down my partner is going to follow so it has to just work and take great photos. If the Pixel 4a as a test device works I’m excited about the Pixel 6 Pro.
On the desktop, just got the new Mac Mini and not looking to jump yet but Linux is a decent desktop OS. All I need is Firefox, a Terminal and Jetbrains to get the job done.
sphinxcdi 2021-08-18 20:09:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The AOSP Camera app is not as good as Google Camera but you can install it if you want. It requires Play services but you can install that too including in a dedicated user profile so other apps like WhatsApp don't use it unnecessarily.
576i 2021-08-18 14:54:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Since that CSAM is not coming to Europe any time soon I guess I can ride that out and keep the iphones/ipads and slowly have a look around if there's an acceptable, dual sim phone that compares to the 12 Mini. Maybe my next phone will be a foldable...
adrianN 2021-08-18 14:42:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
pengo 2021-08-18 19:37:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I have retained an off-line MacOS on my Mac Mini for music production because, although Reaper runs well on Linux, I can't install all the licensed plugins I use. The alternative was Windows, but in my experience it is still below par for performance and reliability.
aborsy 2021-08-18 21:44:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
So I continue to enjoy various wonderful Linux flavors!
I hope my iPhone deprecates faster than usual so that I can soon ditch it for a de-googled phone! (Or possibly a Linux/Pinephone, once batteries get good enough).
lucideer 2021-08-18 15:47:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Very surprisingly decent touchpad for a PC, lighter than my last MBP, same usbc/thunderbolt 3 ports & charger I've now become familiar with and have peripherals for littered around the house (plus — and this may seem dumb ̄— but something so small as the fold-out HDMI/USBA dongle included in the box just drives home that little bit further how actively user-hostile Apple are).
alexfromapex 2021-08-18 15:00:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
tapoxi 2021-08-18 14:23:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
taylodl 2021-08-18 18:08:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Am I misunderstanding anything?
istingray 2021-08-18 15:35:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Phone-alternatives: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28164208 Laptop-alternatives: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28216287
vwoolf 2021-08-18 14:37:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
On the phone, the iPhone seems more secure and privacy conscious overall.
ZeroCool2u 2021-08-18 15:53:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
reedlaw 2021-08-18 14:49:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
yulaow 2021-08-18 15:55:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Like I cannot even find a version with 32gb of ram and if I buy the 16gb version I will never be able to upgrade it.
reedlaw 2021-08-18 19:48:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
jdlyga 2021-08-18 16:00:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]
raydev 2021-08-18 20:57:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I'd have to convince everyone to create a Google account for Meet or similar free video calls.
mindcrime 2021-08-18 15:33:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
null_object 2021-08-18 16:11:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I tend to hope that everyone else sees every issue the exact same way that I do, and can word leading questions like the OP did here in the hope of somehow pulling everyone along as though (in this case) switching is the only reasonable choice and the question boils down to which platform to choose, rather than whether switching is a rational decision in itself.
Otherwise all the other posters giving good reasons why not to switch have done a much better job than I have in explaining why not.
duxup 2021-08-18 14:28:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I feel like that's still more secure than the other options / effort involved. I still think privacy wise Apple is the better play vs all non custom alternatives.
bdamm 2021-08-18 14:31:04 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I use Apple because I have other things to do with my life now, and it's the best of the big ones. They still are.
wilsonfiifi 2021-08-18 17:49:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Syonyk 2021-08-18 14:57:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Perks of the bright yellow "What on earth is that?" - it opens up conversations about why I'm moving off Apple.
The lack of KaiOS Signal is a problem, though I've seen some work towards it - perhaps this will drive more development towards the not-Apple, not-Android ecosystems.
I considered a Pixel with GrapheneOS, but Google's hardware reliability lately has left an awful lot to be desired, and I'm just tired of the smartphone concept anyway.
I've been playing casually with a PineBook Pro for the past year or so, and I'm getting that into duty to replace my MacBook Pro for in-house laptop use. There's a new firmware that makes the trackpad actually good, not the laggy, clunky, borderline usable thing that it shipped with, so that's been nice. I simply don't use that much computing power in the evenings, and the PBP accomplishes most of what I want. Unfortunately, again, it doesn't have things like Signal as "easy to install" options (AArch64 is worse than ARMv7/AArch32), so I should throw some time at that as well.
My office, which has a M1 Mac Mini I've done quite a bit of testing and work on, is going to suffer through going to a small ARM box as well - I'm going to put an ODroid N2+ in there, and see how it works. I'll have to drop back from the LG 5k to a 1440p display, as the ODroid can't drive the 5k, but... eh, whatever. Again, I just don't use the computers for an awful lot. I will lose some functionality with regards to video editing, but I simply don't do much of it, and I do have an x86 Windows/Linux PC in the house I can do that on if I need.
The one thing I've not found a great solution for yet is the iPad. I use it for PDF reading, for web browsing, etc. It's probably safe to use in that style, if I strip accounts off, but... even then, I'd like to get rid of it if I can find an alternative. That's going to be a longer project. I'm very interested in the PineNote announcement, as it would make a great PDF reader in theory, but see "a lot of development to make it work." They don't even promise it will run the display when shipped...
As for paying for things, I've got contactless credit cards that can largely replace Apple Pay for "wave something and go," I just have to separate them from the stack of cards first. Not a big deal.
There's a definite loss of function here, but I'm unwilling to state strongly that I'm opposed to all this, and then continue using Apple products as before.
And I've been looking to get away from the tech ecosystems for a while, so this is just a good kicker for me to do it.
I'll probably keep the 2015 MacBook Pro as a "I do still have some value to an Apple device, Apple having been part of my life for nearly 20 years now," but I'm going to strip stuff off and leave it mostly in archive mode.
at_a_remove 2021-08-18 16:48:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
sydd 2021-08-18 16:28:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Laptop: Framework laptop, if they start to sell it in the EU.
Phone: Currently an ASUS one (one of the very few, thats not made in Shenzen), but I'll switch to a Fairphone if it dies.
ralphc 2021-08-18 17:12:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
calebkaiser 2021-08-18 15:49:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I tried a variety of alternative tablets/touchscreen options, until finally I bought a used Surface Pro 3 for ~$100 on eBay and installed PopOS. Over the last year, it's been the best tablet I've ever owned (at least for my needs), including iPads.
There's a whole subreddit dedicated to running Linux on Surfaces, if anyone is interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/
stjohnswarts 2021-08-19 03:09:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
- pop_os linux on my pc
- idrive for backups/photos
- magic earth / organic maps for maps
- k9 email for gmail
- protonmail
- all backups to idrive
johschmitz 2021-08-18 15:42:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
z3ther 2021-08-18 16:01:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
forgingahead 2021-08-18 14:34:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I think for a phone I may just drop back to a Nokia 3210 and buy a camera for family pictures. Whatsapp will be a loss, but hey, maybe it'll be nice to not have my phone as a distraction during the day.
entropy1111 2021-08-18 15:36:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
- https://github.com/arindas/manjarno
- https://manjarno.snorlax.sh/
There are only 3 distros worth using. Fedora KDE Plasma upgrading after stabl-er point releases, Arch and openSUSE Tumbleweed.
Everything else is very unprofessional or full of technical or human issues. I'm not trying to gatekeep newbies, like, if you use elementaryOS or Linux Mint you're still using Linux. No elitism intended I'm just giving you my opinion.
For exploration or self inflicted harm you can also use NixOS or weird small distros. Although I like Nix' concepts I don't like their implementation or approach to users.
ByteWelder 2021-08-18 15:04:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ostenning 2021-08-18 16:25:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Personally I use dropbox and my own private mail server
kUdtiHaEX 2021-08-18 15:44:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
whytaka 2021-08-18 17:26:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Laptop: Framework with Linux
Phone: Pixel 5 with CalyxOS
bitL 2021-08-18 16:43:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Notebook: ASUS Zenbook S 3300x2200 with Linux Mint
Phone: Sailfish OS
Tablet: none
Streaming: NUC with Linux Mint and Kodi
Drybones 2021-08-18 15:43:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
- Phone: There is no phones anymore that interest me from the Android ecosystem and iPhones satiate my desire to upgrade every year from getting updates and not turning to shit from use over time. Plus there isn't much more I'd want other than a TouchID option besides FaceID. After moving my (big) whole family to iPhones, we iMessage and FaceTime a lot. I can't re-teach my mother all over again to use something else.
- Watch: My first and only watch was a year ago. Android ones don't interest me. Looking at the Amazfit GTR 2e and that looks good, but if I had to, I'd probably consider the PineTime watch cause it's cheap and obviously not sucking my information or reliant on an app.
- Laptop: I had a MacBook Pro 15 2017 that I recently traded for a MacBook Air M1 that is working better in every way. I don't use laptops much at all but I like it as an Apple dev environment when needed.
- Desktop: I have a custom built Ryzen+Radeon PC. I recently switched from Windows 10 when rumors about Windows 11 leaked. I currently use Ubuntu 20.04 (GNOME) at home and KDE Neon (Ubuntu 20.04) at work.
Linux Desktop Rant: But let me just say that Linux is a fucking disaster on the desktop still.
GNOME (GTK specifically) doesn't have an icon/thumbnail view mode when selecting files (GTK File Chooser Module) and they have refused to fix this. Every GTK base DE has this issue (GNOME, XFCE, Budgie, Cinnamon, Pantheon, LXDE Switching to a different unique DE like KDE doesn't help much either cause apps BUNDLE GTK in them and force you to use the GTK File Chooser module
The most promising unique and usable distro (elementary OS) for the average user still has 3 major flaws: GTK based, Ubuntu dependent, and buggy releases. Elementary OS 6 still has a LightDM bug that makes it so that if you lock the screen or it goes to sleep, you can't get back into your desktop session unless you force reboot.
The app ecosystem is splintering and some of the new options are just as bad or worse than regular package managers. I despise Canonical's Snap stuff. Everything about Snap sucks to use. Makes apps 3x slower, spams my volumes list with loop devices, has flawed sandbox security, and apps can't respect my OS's theme so everything looks like shit.
I tried this weekend to get Arch (gave up due to complex issues) and Manjaro i3 (I also tried various other Ubuntu distros) setup on my work laptop this week only to have the issues with my installs. Kubuntu doesn't allow me to encrypt my drive at installation. Arch and Manjaro fail to find my NVMe drive UUID at boot via GRUB EFI so it can't even get to the decrypting LUKS which I have to do manually. And now I find out OpenWebStart doesn't even support anything not Ubuntu/Debian even for it's compiling. IDK what else to use for launching JavaWeb applets. I ended up on KDE Neon cause it's KDE and Ubuntu and allowed encrypting my drive at installation, so that works I guess but boy am I not happy with this compromise.
Oh and guess what, KDE Plasma doesn't work well on Wayland. I already had it freeze and lock up on Wayland within just an hour of using it and now I'm running it on Xorg.
It's all so tiring.
beders 2021-08-18 15:38:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
dopu 2021-08-18 15:47:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
abdulmuhaimin 2021-08-18 15:23:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
PC already on Pop!_OS
suifbwish 2021-08-18 15:10:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
oxymoran 2021-08-18 14:51:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Popegaf 2021-08-18 15:43:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
You can checkout compatibility of hardware components @ https://linux-hardware.org/
It's of course possible to keep your Macbook, do the environment some good (less waste) and run linux on your mac: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux
Phone: a phone that supports LineageOS ( https://download.lineageos.org/ ) or GrapheneOS ( https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support ). Neither are perfect:
- LineageOS still has some google config but at least it doesn't have Google Services (use microG for that https://lineage.microg.org/ )
- GrapheneOS only runs on Google Pixel devices so you will be putting money into Google's hands
guerrilla 2021-08-18 17:01:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
harlanji 2021-08-18 16:49:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Computer: RasPi 4 8GB + 7” screen with Ubuntu Mate in a SmartiPi case.
Car: put the computer onto the visor and flip the display, hook up accessories.
I’m still with iPhone but pretty close to that setup. Mainly I am thinking about emergencies where I want my SIM in my phone when I leave my car. A second SIM that supports WiFi calling is likely the final step, giving the new # to the iPhone and using WiFi only when possible, at home or in car.
Sounds complicated, no doubt. Tethering CarPuter to iPhone is a much easier approach. I’m a VanLifer.
hkt 2021-08-18 15:42:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
* Dell XPS 13 running Manjaro/GNOME3. When this XPS dies, I will use the Framework laptop instead.
* Fairphone 3 running /e/OS (degoogled android) with Aurora Store and Aurora Droid.
* Withings Scanwatch, which doesn't have much in the way of regular smartwatch functionality but does monitor my heart rate, provide ECGs and checks my blood oxygen saturation as well as pulse, steps etc.
* Contactless payments just through my bank card. Sometimes I try to remember cash is probably the safest and most ethical choice for payments, but I'm not good at this.
micromacrofoot 2021-08-18 15:29:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I hate to say it, but if these are the best alternatives then I guess I have to be ok with losing my privacy. I'll keep pressing Apple and donating to the EFF and Fight for the Future.
excalibur 2021-08-18 14:33:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]
EugeneOZ 2021-08-18 14:32:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]
api 2021-08-18 14:37:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Linux is still too high-maintenance for me, though I could be convinced. I am watching https://frame.work/ closely and considering grabbing one just to support that effort. The big flaw is use of Intel chips which are total shit compared to even Ryzens on power/performance.
The M1 makes leaving Apple even harder. The performance is great and the power efficiency makes a laptop feel like it has some kind of zero point infinite energy device in it. You can do a full day's work on an M1 running real apps like large builds, VMs, and IDEs and still have 1/3 battery remaining, and it's faster than a top-end Intel Mac.
There is absolutely nothing comparable to the M1 in the x64 PC ecosystem. A latest-generation Ryzen would be the closest you could get, but it's hard to find good Ryzen notebooks due to Intel's strong-arming of that space.
ByteWelder 2021-08-18 15:28:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]
In terms of SSD performance, the M1 SSD upgrade from 256 GB to 1TB cost about 500 EUR, while a 1TB Samsung 980 SSD (with very similar performance) costs about 120 EUR total.
lambda_dn 2021-08-18 14:53:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
grae_QED 2021-08-18 15:58:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
If you're upset by the thought of a third party entity looking at your stuff then stop using products by these companies. Use FOSS for your computer programs and OS's. Use a phone OS like graphene, /e/, or something else privacy oriented.
The only way to stop being a commodity is by sacrificing convenience and the only way to gain that convenience back is to build your own tools. Talk to the old timers here that have been using minimal OS's and building custom scripts for the past 20 years. They'll tell you that you get a level of speed, efficiency and customizability you can't get with name brand OS's.
The learning curve is worth it considering you build knowledge and skills not a lot of people today have. Not to mention you gain technological independence, which is worth its weight in gold.
numair 2021-08-18 14:30:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Matte screen that actually works outdoors, removable long-life battery, unassuming vintage design (“let’s not rob that guy, he can’t even afford a new computer”). I haven’t investigated the Linuxability of this thing yet, but it’s super-light and impressive as a mosh terminal (especially with built-in 4G LTE!). Tough magnesium body, super comfy keyboard that’s easy to swap out if you beat it up. Made in Japan!
I have a fully loaded MacBook Pro, and couldn’t imagine doing design work on anything else, but I somehow end up getting lots of work done on the Letsnote. It’s at a point where I don’t think I’ll be excited about the long-awaited new 14-inch MacBook Pro, as I doubt it’ll have a matte screen and a durable exterior (and, I much prefer to look like a sad worker stuck with a dorky computer from 2006, than a moneyed tech guy).
jstummbillig 2021-08-18 14:39:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Oh man, I kinda wish I felt different, but this thing gets a hard no just for its aesthetics. Notebooks are both way to omnipresent in my life and manifold to revisit something mid-90s. I do not want my home & life to feel like an old X-Files episode.
numair 2021-08-18 14:45:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
aaaaaaaaaaab 2021-08-19 08:27:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Only ironically. See: vaporwave.
thereddaikon 2021-08-18 15:13:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]
How do you suggest getting one of these things or getting support for it? I'm not against foreign market hardware but they can be a real pain in the ass for many. Last japanese laptop I had was almost 20 years ago, an ultraportable Sony. It was interesting but finding drivers online back then was a challenge.
fomine3 2021-08-19 00:41:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It seems that US keyboard model is sold as "Asia Model", but sold only for corporate. Hopefully you can find used one. Possibly it's also available in asian marketplace. https://biz.panasonic.com/jp-ja/products-services/letsnote/l...
0800LUCAS 2021-08-18 14:56:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Checked Amazon.co.jp and doesn't seem like they ship to Europe. I'm actually interested in trying one of these out.
przemub 2021-08-18 14:34:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
numair 2021-08-18 14:44:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I think it’d be great to see more overseas business pick up for these computers — it’s one of those classic bits of Japanese technology that looks hopelessly outdated until you use it, and then you hope it never changes. My label for such things is “In-N-Out Burger Technology,” for reasons that should be obvious to my fellow Californians...
jron 2021-08-18 15:49:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fomine3 2021-08-19 01:06:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Meanwhile they also stick with old fashioned non-isolated keyboard. It's great.
1-6 2021-08-18 15:32:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
hellbannedguy 2021-08-18 15:10:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I like the retro look. I had a Panasonic years ago and adored it. It was huge, but did everything, even had a tv tuner. And it was easy to work on. Used it 10 plus years.