Minecraft is helping children with autism make new friends (2016)
dcow 2021-08-19 07:55:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
codeulike 2021-08-19 12:25:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
brimoore 2021-08-19 14:25:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mike_hock 2021-08-19 09:24:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
kitd 2021-08-19 09:54:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]
hnbad 2021-08-18 19:15:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
tobyhinloopen 2021-08-19 07:42:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I personally think it’s just a weird discussion with no value. There is no universal term people are happy with - You can’t do it right. Whatever set of words you’re using, you’ll end up offending someone. It makes it hard to talk about autism, because the endless discussion how to call these people distracts from the real discussions.
mistermann 2021-08-19 13:34:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It seems to me that we use a very different thinking style in anything involving the humanities than we do with materialistic & deterministic domains, where our approaches have proven themselves so successful.
mwcampbell 2021-08-19 08:45:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
AzzieElbab 2021-08-19 12:02:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
sidlls 2021-08-19 14:37:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]
unyttigfjelltol 2021-08-19 13:22:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
breakfastduck 2021-08-19 13:39:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I have brown hair. I'd prefer to be called brown haired. But calling me a person with brown hair is perfectly accurate too. Give it a rest.
Knufen 2021-08-19 07:45:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
hinoki 2021-08-19 08:01:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
erklik 2021-08-19 08:24:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Would the same view apply to every disability? For example, screening for Down Syndrome largely results in abortion. Is that also eugenics? Or is it not the same since Autism isn't a genetic disorder?
cameronh90 2021-08-19 08:41:26 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Personally as an autist I wouldn't want to cure it for myself as it would be a large change in personality that I don't think I could integrate - but if I was to have kids, I'd rather they were "cured" of autism when young.
odessacubbage 2021-08-19 12:25:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]
an_ko 2021-08-19 10:30:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
To my understanding, the argument made by autistic rights advocates is that people with the condition could usually live like anyone else, if society open-mindedly accommodated for them. This is already the norm for disabilities requiring e.g. braille or a wheelchair. Attempts to "cure autism" feel eugenics-ish because they're lazy intellectual shortcuts; avoid our shared responsibility of accommodating for differences, by erasing the differences.
In contrast, the case for abortion of Down syndrome fetuses is that the condition necessarily comes with many "built in" physiological complications that current medicine can't fully manage, effectively guaranteeing some amount of suffering that ends in early death, no matter how well we accommodate for them. They're not aborted to avoid accommodating, but to prevent suffering.
MontyCarloHall 2021-08-19 10:50:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I have never seen anyone argue against cures for blindness or physical impairment. Every visually/physically impaired person I know would be elated if their condition could be cured, and would have no issues with prenatal screening for their disabilities, if it were possible.
The only disabled community I know of where a not insignificant fraction of people oppose curing their disability is the deaf community, and it is nonetheless an extremely controversial position to take.
noneeeed 2021-08-19 13:20:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The vast majority of hearing people have no interest in learning sign-language unless they are related to a deaf person. You are, in a sense, a perenial foreigner in your own land, surrounded by people who you cannot communicate freely with and never will be able to (unlike a migrant who can learn the language). So you form communities with other deaf people with who you can communicate freely. Deaf culture has become something more distinct than simply a community of people with a shared experience within a wider culture, it's much more isolated.
Obviously hearing loss is on a spectrum, with varying levels of remediation available from aids and implants to lip-reading and speech training so the above is a generalisation. But especially for adults, things like implants are not a panacea, you don't suddenly hear perfectly. I have a friend who uses a combination of an implant and an aid, but talking with him still requires continuous extra thought and consideration to make sure he can follow me, and that I can understand his speech. A noisy pub or a free-flowing multi-person conversation with everyone butting in is still incredibly isolating for him.
The internet has changed a lot of this from what I've been told, with so much culture being online and in text, deaf people are able to interract with hearing people much more often and freely (and on equal terms) far more often, even if they have many of the same issues IRL that they have always had. But the seperation remains, and it's mostly a result of the hearing world's almost total lack of consideration or effort to accomodate (see the absense of a sign-language interpreter for UK government announcements as an example).
zozbot234 2021-08-19 12:41:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I wonder what's appropriate "accommodation" for a very low functioning kid whose idea of a good time is banging their head against the wall over and over again. A padded room, most likely? Many "autistic rights" advocates simply ignore and dehumanize these kids.
Sprocklem 2021-08-19 16:23:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
dooglius 2021-08-19 11:55:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
> They're not aborted to avoid accommodating, but to prevent suffering You don't think people who want to "cure" autism are also motivated by this?
codr7 2021-08-19 12:16:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]
The question in my mind is who is going to write all the software once we've cured all who could do it well.
imtringued 2021-08-19 10:06:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
How does that work with a spectrum? Where is the cut off? What level is "dangerous"/"dysfunctional" enough to warrant an abortion?
DaedPsyker 2021-08-19 08:45:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
gambiting 2021-08-19 08:51:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
sokoloff 2021-08-19 09:57:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Developing a pregnancy screening for “fetuses pre-disposed to cancer” may have an entirely different mechanism of reducing cancer and one that many people (myself included) would find far more troubling that the therapeutic cure above.
MontyCarloHall 2021-08-19 12:52:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I see absolutely no downside to prenatal testing for such horrible diseases, all of which have a clear-cut genetic basis. Nobody has issues with prenatal screening for Tay-Sachs disease; why should genetically unambiguous severe predisposition to cancer be any different?
sokoloff 2021-08-19 13:11:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
We did prenatal testing. We didn't do it for no reason and there were test outcomes that would have led us to terminate the pregnancy. Elevated risk of breast cancer would not be among them.
* - Among Ashkenazi, the rate is about 10 times higher.
s5300 2021-08-19 08:19:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Having the underlying intention of eugenics, but not outright saying "my true goals are eugenics"
In his example, Autism Speaks - it is fairly well known amongst autistic people/those on a neurodivergent spectrum/those who truly love/accept their autistic children/autistic people in general, that the organization, at it's head and with a majority of those who identify as members of it, are really people who are frustrated/unhappy/mad and/or absolutely terrible at coping with the fact that they had an autistic child & otherwise wish they'd have never been born. Their goal is not to accept autistic people as who they are or try to push for the general public (or perhaps "their agenda being") to accept them as who they are, but to outright eliminate the existence of what we know as Autism as a whole, which can politely be called "curing"
A more simple yet slightly less correct by "proper definitions" idea of what this entails is "being an asshole, but really, truly, wanting people to not think/be able to go "hey you're an asshole""
It's sort of like the Susan G. Komen charity, and as hard to explain as to why they're actually really fucking bad organizations to the average person - most people over the age of, say 15-20(?) likely think of Susan G. Komen foundation when they think of Breast Cancer or vice versa. The fact of the matter is, which can be easily seen on "charity rating websites" that document the entirety of various charities financial reports (legally attainable to the public per US law I believe, or something close to that) among a few other things, that Susan G. Komen doesn't actually do much for Breast Cancer at all from a funding/research/finding a cure perspective, but is entirely a financial grift for those at the helm of it. There are many, many better Breast Cancer awareness charities to donate to, but the average person will just think Susan G. Komen, and unknowingly put their money right into the pocket of grifters. It's been a very well known thing... for many years now, and legally they've gotten away with it by maintaining that they're simply "an awareness organization" - and, one could go on to argue many things about whether or not that could be legitimate and the money they're funneling to themselves is "earned/not malicious" for far too long.
tl:dr Susan G. Komen people are a bunch of dicks, but you won't know that if you don't look into it, so most people will probably think badly of you if you say "Susan G. Komen are a bunch of dicks" , just as somebody may think badly of you if you say "Autism Speaks are a bunch of dicks"
Hope this helps, and hope I don't upset too many people with this.
AllegedAlec 2021-08-19 11:22:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Yes. It's a mental disorder. You can try sweettalking what it is, but mild versions of autism are already insanely disruptive, both to the parents, but also to all other children and people that are forced to interact with them, for example in a classroom setting, where any autistic kid will take more than their fair share of the teacher's attention. But god forbid if you have a child with low-functioning or severe autism. You might as well give up all plans you had for the foreseeable future.
sidlls 2021-08-19 14:45:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
What you’ve identified isn’t the autistic kids’ fault, it’s the miserly taxpayers’, incompetent admins’, and corrupt/spiteful politicians’, who don’t adequately fund or organize our public school systems.
AllegedAlec 2021-08-19 14:48:45 +0000 UTC [ - ]
No, in addition to.
> What you’ve identified isn’t the autistic kids’ fault, it’s the miserly taxpayers’, incompetent admins’, and corrupt/spiteful politicians’, who don’t adequately fund or organize our public school systems.
It is though. Their unique blend of disability makes them inherrently unsuitable to any task that involves a group of other children. That's not to say we should blame them for it, but this is not something you can reasonably fix by throwing money at education.
I'd like to emphasize though that I meant the schooling issue as one of the many examples you could pick where autistic people are both at a disadvantage and are a detriment to the group. Please don't get stuck on this one example.
wizzwizz4 2021-08-19 12:48:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Ah yes, the classroom environment, where children are not treated like people. Woe betide somebody objects to that!
“Mental disorder” – how is that defined? Saying “mental disorders are bad, autism is a mental disorder, therefore autism is bad” is the non-central fallacy, so obviously you must have a better argument (and I just can't see it). But remember: homosexuality used to be considered a “mental disorder”, as did women wanting the vote (I'm not joking!).
I posit: “mental disorder” is just a word for people who diverge from what society considers typical (or, cynically, acceptable) variation in what people are like. Some of that variation is bad, I won't argue with that. Most of that variation is absolutely fine.
The way society is means that any atypical variation is bad, because society punishes it. If not for that punishment, much variation would be a non-issue.
AllegedAlec 2021-08-19 14:30:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]
They don't object. They throw tantrums because they didn't get a 2 week advance warning of something happening.
> “Mental disorder” – how is that defined?
DSM-V: a syndrome characterized by *clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior* that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning.
Mental disorders are bad by definition. Psychologists don't put behaviours in their diagnostic manuals for nothing. Autism is in there for a reason. At its mild end it's a hurdle. At its severe end it's absolutely debilitating for the sufferer and their entire network.
> I posit: “mental disorder” is just a word for people who diverge from what society considers typical (or, cynically, acceptable) variation in what people are like. Some of that variation is bad, I won't argue with that. Most of that variation is absolutely fine.
I suggest you go read through the DSM. A major criterium for each mental illness is that the personis hampered in their function by it.
dcow 2021-08-19 08:18:01 +0000 UTC [ - ]
hoseja 2021-08-19 08:54:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]
One could of course argue that most of medicine is "white-washed eugenics" and point to similar efforts by, say, deaf people to view cochlear implants as a bad thing but that's not the topic here.
AllegedAlec 2021-08-19 11:23:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It is.
loriverkutya 2021-08-19 12:59:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
AllegedAlec 2021-08-19 14:16:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]
AussieWog93 2021-08-19 08:58:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
IntelMiner 2021-08-19 11:38:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
kitd 2021-08-19 09:57:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
michaelbuckbee 2021-08-19 12:20:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I'd (to my detriment) kind of written off Roblox as really shallow, but the overall ecosystem of games pushes things in fascinating directions.
kgwxd 2021-08-19 13:57:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]