LibreOffice 7.2 Community is strong on interoperability
ChuckNorris89 2021-08-19 11:00:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
>Microsoft files are still based on the proprietary format deprecated by the ISO in April 2008, and not on the ISO approved standard, so they embed a large amount of hidden artificial complexity.
Why isn't there an anti-trust lawsuit against this artificial monopoly on office formats?
thaumasiotes 2021-08-19 11:54:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
> Why isn't there an anti-trust lawsuit against this artificial monopoly on office formats?
What? You want it to be illegal for Microsoft to use a file format of their own design when implementing their own software?
marcodiego 2021-08-19 12:31:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I don't know if an anti-trust lawsuit is adequate, but governments should ban adoption of proprietary formats entirely.
fsflover 2021-08-19 12:38:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
the_third_wave 2021-08-19 15:30:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I called OOXML a boondoggle because that what it was. Microsoft's documentation of the format consisted of a several thousand pages long semi-binary dump of the files produced by Microsoft Office - which are not much more than memory dumps containing binary blobs, poured into an XML container with vague descriptions of what the data types actually were - often no more than 'as produced by Microsoft Office version x.y'. A large portion of the original OOXML files consisted of blobs of binary MS Office data, making it close to impossible to implement that version by non-Microsoft entities. When pressured Microsoft agreed that the current versions of Microsoft Office were not producing 'standard-compliant' OOXML but that this would change in newer versions. Well, the future came, the OOXML format was cleaned up and documented so as to be interoperable but Microsoft never adapted Microsoft Office to the standard, instead producing its own iteration of 'the standard'.
In short, the only reason why they every produced OOXML - the 'standard' - was to use it as a club to wield in negotiations. They never meant for it to be an actual data interchange standard, they never aimed at having third parties stand on a like footing with regard to which version of OOXML was meant to be canonical. It was, and still is, meant to be a box to tick on a compliance list for getting large contracts, not a file format standard to which their products would be tailored. Their vision is whatever is produced by the latest incarnation of Microsoft Office is 'the standard', just like before.
The real question to be answered here is why ISO went along with this charade when they already had a working file format standard in the Open Document format. They could just have said 'no' like other standards bodies did, Microsoft could have been made to implement the ODF format and the world would be a better, more interoperable place.
So indeed, Microsoft should not be allowed to use a file format of their own design when implementing their own software while selling it as if it abides by an ISO standard.
fsflover 2021-08-19 12:00:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
thaumasiotes 2021-08-19 13:59:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fsflover 2021-08-19 14:06:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
thaumasiotes 2021-08-19 14:25:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fsflover 2021-08-19 14:30:44 +0000 UTC [ - ]
thaumasiotes 2021-08-19 14:46:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fsflover 2021-08-19 14:53:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
thaumasiotes 2021-08-19 14:56:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fsflover 2021-08-19 15:04:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Or maybe it was just a luck for MS, who knows...
0zymandiass 2021-08-19 12:37:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
squarefoot 2021-08-19 13:06:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Versioning might play a role here. On Office I've often observed the tendency to use by default the latest format available, no matter if the poor guy on the other side will have to upgrade the suite to load it, therefore LibreOffice might come late since its developers for some time have to debug what Office already implements. I now set up all LO installations i do for me and other people to output where possible (Word, Excel, Powerpoint) in Office 97-2003 formats, so they hardly give problems on Windows machines. Nobody complained so far, as it is extremely unlikely that those "ancient" but well oiled formats don't support the features needed by 99.9% of users.
davidgerard 2021-08-19 13:22:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I don't believe you. Bug report numbers?
zxspectrum1982 2021-08-19 15:33:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]
It's free but not open source but still it's so much lighter and fast and compatible than LibreOffice...
owly 2021-08-19 11:11:40 +0000 UTC [ - ]
xcambar 2021-08-19 12:38:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
* compatibility with external docs (incoming) and external systems (outgoing)
* the whole Office365 suite provides sharing out of the box
* preexisting knowledge of the Office suite
* Excel is just better
It looks like the most unfair advantage of Office is that it is already everywhere.
2Gkashmiri 2021-08-19 12:47:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
For the last year or so I have switched completely to LO which has been a little rough but not difficult.
Calc has native =regex which is a killer feature
fartcannon 2021-08-19 13:36:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ChuckNorris89 2021-08-19 11:45:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
commoner 2021-08-19 12:37:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
spacemanmatt 2021-08-19 15:34:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]
teilo 2021-08-19 15:28:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
roenxi 2021-08-19 12:58:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Honestly this is one of the areas where I think a government sponsorship program to encourage open formats and the tools to work with them would be good. MS Office is one of the great productivity tools of the 21st century. It is unbelievable how much has been done with it. But the document locking will be long term harmful.
LibreOffice is competing with a software leviathan here. There aren't many beasts bigger than Office.
2Gkashmiri 2021-08-19 12:43:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I have around a dozen bugs open on their bugs page which gets some attention but I suggest everyone to do bug reporting. Heck, I often write bug reports for lazy people which would get picked up.
sdze 2021-08-19 12:29:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]
commoner 2021-08-19 12:33:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
ubermonkey 2021-08-19 12:42:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Back when Office was absurdly expensive, the need for a free/Free option was pretty huge. I don't see that need now -- I mean, I get that there are free-as-in-freedom types who will always choose LO over MS Office, and good on them for it, but that's an uncommon position. In every collaborative business context I've ever been in, using something OTHER than true-blue MS Office was a recipe for sadness. This-or-that formatting wouldn't work. Macros wouldn't work. Templates and styles wouldn't work. It's always been a nightmare.
We'd put up with it if there was literally no other way, but now that Office is both affordable and much, much more broadly available, I don't see any reason to experiment with LO at all.
davidgerard 2021-08-19 13:24:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
My evidence: nobody EVER bags Google Docs over its terrible DOCX compatibility. It makes an absolute hash of DOCX.
Have you ever heard anyone complain of this? No you haven't.
The claim that this was the killer issue was always just an excuse.
ubermonkey 2021-08-19 16:11:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
This is probably because most orgs that use Google Docs don't care about DOCX compatibility. But the vast majority of offices use MS Office, so Docx compatibility is a big damn deal.
But! I will say that I absolutely HAVE heard many, many people reference the lack of docx compatibility as a reason NOT to use Google Docs -- or anything else that isn't Office.
Even if we entertain your idea, though, and this isn't really a reason people don't use LO (even though it is), what then is the REAL reason people don't use LO?
commoner 2021-08-19 12:42:57 +0000 UTC [ - ]
GIF demo: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/08/libreoffice-7-2-release-...
dsego 2021-08-19 13:03:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I think Ubuntu had the right idea with building a similar feature into Unity, so every program could use it.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/131617/how-do-i-use-the-hud
ptx 2021-08-19 14:52:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Edit: Since 2007: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=2007102708084461...
dsego 2021-08-19 16:14:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
orangepanda 2021-08-19 13:25:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/find-what-you-need...
fartcannon 2021-08-19 13:33:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Squarex 2021-08-19 12:59:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]