Ritalin and similar medications cause brain to focus on benefits of work (2020)
thedudeabides5 2021-08-19 16:58:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
criticaltinker 2021-08-19 15:35:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Adderall and Ritalin can be addictive and are widely abused. Many studies show that these drugs are relatively 'safe', but we are only beginning to understand the long-term effects on the brain from chronic abuse [2][3].
To anyone out there who is needlessly abusing these drugs, it would be prudent of you to look for alternative and natural ways to massage your mind into a state that is conducive to productive work. Exercise, diet, and sleep are incredibly important.
> Higher dopamine synthesis capacity in the caudate nucleus was associated with greater willingness to allocate cognitive effort. In addition, methylphenidate and sulpiride increased subjective values and motivation to work specifically for people with low dopamine synthesis capacity.
> Collectively, our results support that striatal dopamine enhances motivation for cognitive effort by amplifying the effects of benefits versus costs attended early in a decision.
[1] Dopamine promotes cognitive effort by biasing the benefits versus costs of cognitive work https://science.sciencemag.org/content/367/6484/1362
[2] Acute and long-term effects of adolescent methylphenidate on decision-making and dopamine receptor mRNA expression in the orbitofrontal cortex https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5404501/
[3] Chronic methylphenidate treatment during adolescence has long-term effects on monoaminergic function https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/026988111880549...
wswope 2021-08-19 16:44:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I ask because your sources don’t really serve your point, and are part of a broader body of literature that you’re not contextualizing: there’s a robust body of evidence, primarily based around MRI studies in real humans, showing that stimulant-based treatment of ADHD in childhood and adolescence does cause significant changes in brain structure. In a good way. Normalizing deficits in areas of the prefrontal cortex associated with executive function relative to controls.
I realize your comment itself is focused around abuse of these drugs rather than genuine treatment, but your citations don’t make much sense in that context, and there’s an *immense* body of research studying the long-term effects of amphetamine and MPH (especially amphetamine abuse). The assertion that we’re “just beginning” to understand this stuff is quite an overstatement.
criticaltinker 2021-08-19 17:09:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I've seen the literature showing evidence of reduced depression and suicide rates in adolescents who undergo long-term treatment with Ritalin and closely related drugs.
Are you aware of anything beyond that? Please cite the sources here so we can all learn. I have yet to see any conclusive evidence that the changes in brain structure and function are always 'good', and the previous citations I provided present evidence that counters your claim.
wayoutthere 2021-08-19 16:57:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
I was on amphetamines for ADHD for nearly 30 years. Toward the end it got really hard to tell the difference between “amped up and focused” and “active psychosis”. My behavior was erratic and people around me were worried, despite these being drugs I had taken my entire life. They worked well and helped me get to a certain point in my career where soft skills become more important, when they suddenly became a hindrance.
I switched to Strattera / atomoxetine (a non-stimulant drug approved for use with ADHD) and it’s been great. I can’t rely on the drugs for motivation anymore, but it does seem to remove the roadblocks to focusing on something when I really need to.
I’m never going to have great attention to detail without amphetamines, and I’ve had to accept that and adopt a more “visionary” outlook. But I no longer feel like a square peg trying to force herself into a round hole. Amphetamines are good if your working style is to disappear into a hole and come out with a whole lot of productivity, but for anything collaborative I find they can be more of a burden than a boon.
_moof 2021-08-19 16:53:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]
syntheticnature 2021-08-19 15:59:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Zababa 2021-08-19 16:56:19 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Isn't part of it due to dosage? From what I understand, medical doses are lower than recreational doses, sometimes by a factor of 5-10.
criticaltinker 2021-08-19 16:34:27 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Anyone aware of literature confirming or explaining this phenomenon?
wayoutthere 2021-08-19 17:03:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]
This is an urban legend doctors used to tell parents to get them ok with the idea of their kids taking stimulants. Amphetamines are “go pills”; they make you more productive in low doses and get you high in high doses whether you have ADHD or not.
fred_is_fred 2021-08-19 15:53:35 +0000 UTC [ - ]
_moof 2021-08-19 16:57:52 +0000 UTC [ - ]
People with these kinds of problems reach a point of desperation after having tried everything you could possibly think of. So when the hundredth person comes along and says "you don't need meds, you just need X," where X is one of the many, many things they've already tried, it's exasperating.
rwnspace 2021-08-19 16:05:08 +0000 UTC [ - ]
hypertele-Xii 2021-08-19 16:39:17 +0000 UTC [ - ]
To me the key is changing the way I think about it - It's not an illness, I'm different. It's not a curse, I'll figure out how to make it a blessing. I don't need meds, I'll work it out.
bigwavedave 2021-08-19 16:14:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Absolutely. It's a really frustrating experience too when you're denied access to these life-altering (not an exaggeration) medications for these reasons even when you have years of medical records detailing your condition and your treatment needs. I went to community college in a small town for the first two years of my degree; I had a great doc there who was happy to make sure I was getting the right doses for my condition and would check in with me every few weeks to see if anything had changed. After getting my associate's, I moved to a much larger city to transfer to a college roughly 10x the size of my community college for my bachelor's degree. I found a reputable local doc, got my medical records transferred, and made an appointment (required for a controlled substance) to continue my prescription.
You know what he told me?
"Oh, since this is a college town with several colleges and a lot of students looking to abuse 'study drugs', our policy is that we don't treat your condition here. But I have some resources on meditation and mindfulness that you should look through."
I got the same kind of answer at two other offices before I got fed up and asked my original doc to get me a referral to a psychiatrist who wouldn't blow me off like these quacks had.
I'm not saying that substance abuse isn't a problem, but I also don't think that treating everybody like children and drug seekers is the right call. But hey, n=1 and I'm just some guy with a beard- YMMV.
criticaltinker 2021-08-19 16:02:46 +0000 UTC [ - ]
mrhyyyyde 2021-08-19 15:55:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]
aNoob7000 2021-08-19 16:00:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
This way we could look at our athletes, business leaders, politicians, friends, and everyone else and see all the things they consume to get things done.
kayodelycaon 2021-08-19 17:02:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Things go a lot better if people get to know me as me before they find out just how much I struggle with day to day. I don't want to be defined by my illness.
wpasc 2021-08-19 16:04:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]
hypertele-Xii 2021-08-19 16:33:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]
cacozen 2021-08-19 16:06:11 +0000 UTC [ - ]
eastendguy 2021-08-19 16:03:31 +0000 UTC [ - ]
standardUser 2021-08-19 16:42:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
dwater 2021-08-19 16:16:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
thrower123 2021-08-19 16:50:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]
haskellandchill 2021-08-19 16:04:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
MrGuts 2021-08-19 15:40:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fshbbdssbbgdd 2021-08-19 16:52:41 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Little did they know that I was already in the process of getting officially diagnosed with adhd!
reidjs 2021-08-19 15:56:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]
JohnWhigham 2021-08-19 16:20:09 +0000 UTC [ - ]
thebean11 2021-08-19 15:53:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]
haskellandchill 2021-08-19 16:05:49 +0000 UTC [ - ]
haskellandchill 2021-08-19 16:05:14 +0000 UTC [ - ]
traviscj 2021-08-19 15:47:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fshbbdssbbgdd 2021-08-19 16:56:28 +0000 UTC [ - ]
chiefalchemist 2021-08-19 15:49:24 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Not to get a tin foil hat-y, but it easy to see a darkside to this, as well as there being those who would seek to exploit it.
But for therapeutic applications it sounds hopeful.
Ancapistani 2021-08-19 16:47:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]
FWIW, this is a fairly accurate description of my experience with ADHD. It’s not that I have trouble focusing; quite the opposite, I can focus for hours on the smallest detail. The problem is that without medication I don’t get to choose what that detail _is_. I could end up (and _have_ ended up) spending countless hours on inconsequential stuff because I can’t get it off my mind otherwise while I watch my life fall apart around me, unable to do a thing about it.
Mordisquitos 2021-08-19 16:14:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Consider that most people who are diagnosed with ADHD (especially if it was in adulthood) are well aware on the metacognitive level that they should think in terms of the benefits of work and its importance, and they do want to. Their problem is a difficulty to actively decide to think in those terms when it truly matters, in practical day-to-day life. So stimulants do indeed change how they think, improving the effectiveness of their desired thought process.
ramesh31 2021-08-19 15:52:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]
fzzzy 2021-08-19 16:05:16 +0000 UTC [ - ]
cacozen 2021-08-19 15:30:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]
For all I know it could mean the person gets to believe more in their capacity to do the hard tasks. Or it could mean that the person feels less distracted and more willing to engage. Or many other things... Am I missing something?
filoleg 2021-08-19 16:17:51 +0000 UTC [ - ]
Iirc there were studies done trying to assess the same thing with regards to Adderall (aka amphetamine salts, which is used for adhd similarly to Ritalin). The researchers came to that exact same conclusion, that the drug didn’t actually make people smarter, but it gave them an illusion of being more capable, and they ended up performing better due to confidence.[0]
0. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03768...
cpncrunch 2021-08-19 15:56:23 +0000 UTC [ - ]
2021-08-19 16:00:32 +0000 UTC [ - ]