Hugo Hacker News

The Quest to Recreate a Lost and ‘Terrifying’ Medieval Mead

kevinmchugh 2021-08-19 13:15:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> To avoid the chlorine, fluoride, and other additives found in modern tap water

You should be able to get a water report from your municipality, listing any treatments they perform. Chlorine and similar can be removed with Campden tablets, available at your homebrew store. I've never heard of fluoride causing a change in a fermented product. I know plenty of breweries that just use fluoridated city water.

Note the special lid on that mason jar for allowing off-gassing. Fermenting in a mason jar with a standard lid is a recipe for exploding glass.

I'm not sure what to make of the fermentation time here. Meads are usually fermented longer, older recipes tend to have very short fermentation times. Especially older, low gravity recipes.

If you don't want to play the guessing game on fermentation time, buy a hydrometer or refractometer.

ixwt 2021-08-19 13:52:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> Chlorine and similar can be removed with Campden tablets, available at your homebrew store.

Never heard of this. I've googled a bit around, and I think I'll try this in the future.

> I'm not sure what to make of the fermentation time here. Meads are usually fermented longer, older recipes tend to have very short fermentation times. Especially older, low gravity recipes.

The caramelization process does slow the process down a good bit. I've made a few bochets, and I notice they go slower than other meads.

I've heard of people having issues using Ale yeasts with meads. The temperature of the house could have an impact. The lack of available nutrients (raisins a hotly debated topic in the mead community).

I would expect the Kveik yeast, the Lalvin D47, and maybe the "yeast party" to be faster than the S-04 and Saison yeast.

h2odragon 2021-08-19 15:36:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> The temperature of the house could have an impact.

Temperature cycles. The barn wort batches are always more complicated flavors than the steady temperature basement batches.

jccooper 2021-08-19 14:43:30 +0000 UTC [ - ]

The choice of distilled water in particular for a historic recreation is very strange; water makes a big difference. Unless there's reason to believe water in whatever part of France is very soft, a bottled spring water would have been a better choice if you don't want to use tap.

moses-palmer 2021-08-19 12:57:54 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I find it curious that somebody so invested in recreating a medieval mead does not put in the extra effort of procuring long pepper and grains of paradise---those are certainly spices always present in my spice box.

I have never made mead myself however. Are the spices of so little consequence to the final flavour?

detritus 2021-08-19 15:26:06 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Not sure I'd want those in my mead, but thanks for making me feel like a total ignoramus - I'd never heard of either of those two spices!

I've now found a site that sells them in my country and lo! Oh dear, so many other things I've never heard of to try too.

'Thanks?' :)

zimpenfish 2021-08-19 16:01:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> does not put in the extra effort of procuring long pepper and grains of paradise

"I used a pepper blend that included grains of paradise" sounds like they did have grains of paradise in there?

ixwt 2021-08-19 13:22:21 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> I have never made mead myself however. Are the spices of so little consequence to the final flavour?

No, they do have an impact on the final flavor. I don't know what long pepper or grains of paradise taste like, or what the yeast will do with the flavor compounds. In my experience, the quantity of spices in that volume will come through. I honestly feel like 20 cardamom pods will come through quite strongly, in my few years of experience of meads.

kevinmchugh 2021-08-19 13:21:13 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I also found this curious. I don't have either of those in my kitchen or at my grocery store, but they're certainly available online.

They would be pretty noticable in the finished flavor, I imagine. Mead flavor is often best described as "delicate", especially in lower abv meads. The carmellization and yeasts are probably going to be the most notable flavors here.

wizzwizz4 2021-08-19 12:04:03 +0000 UTC [ - ]

It's “terrifying” because hot honey is hot.

bigie35 2021-08-19 12:25:00 +0000 UTC [ - ]

It's also terrifying because the honey mix can expand 3-4x, quickly expanding beyond the container you're using.

rob74 2021-08-19 12:10:47 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Not only that, but apparently it tends to boil "volcano-style", and if you have ever burnt (or "caramelized", to use the more elegant term) sugar, you know how sticky it is - now imagine a burning-hot drop of that sticking to your skin...

onorton 2021-08-19 12:31:12 +0000 UTC [ - ]

It's so known for its stickiness that a mixture of sugar and boiling water is used by inmates against others. It's known as "prison napalm".

Arrath 2021-08-19 16:19:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Well that is decidedly unpleasant knowledge.

2021-08-19 12:45:39 +0000 UTC [ - ]

404mm 2021-08-19 12:59:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Mead is not uncommon to find for purchase in some European countries till this day.

I cannot speak for how authentic is the modern day recipe compared to what the author found. But it’s a mead. It’s sweet and contains alcohol :)

Btw (bitter) beer mixed with mead makes for one delicious drink!

hvs 2021-08-19 13:57:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Mead has reached the modern day. The author is saying that this specific recipe for mead (bochet) has not.

unklefolk 2021-08-19 12:34:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]

What is the alcohol content once fermentation is complete? Is it similar to wine?

mrob 2021-08-19 12:56:43 +0000 UTC [ - ]

There's an online beer recipe calculator (Javascript required) that can also be used for mead:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator

It calculates based on volume of the combined ingredients. I assume dissolving 1 pint of honey in 9 pints of water will result in less than 10 pints of total volume. I don't know exactly how much, but guessing 9.5 pints total, and using raw honey and raisins as the fermentables, I get 11% ABV with the high attenuation D47 yeast, and 8.7% with the low attenuation S-04.

Caramelization will reduce the fermentability of the honey, but I am not sure by how much. My guess is that it's a small effect.

ixwt 2021-08-19 13:28:02 +0000 UTC [ - ]

(All this is wrong, go to edit) I would expect this mead to be high ABV, in the 12-13% range. The rule of thumb I've heard, and has been good in my experience is 1.035 SG per 1 lb honey per 1 gallon of water. The 3 lbs in 1 gallons would come out to a ~1.105 SG, which is a bit over 13%. Though, the sugar content of honey varies from batch to batch, and the non ferment-able sugars from the caramelization process, I would expect anywhere from 9-12%. The more caramelization, the more "burnt sugars", the less ABV.~

EDIT: I grossly miscalculated the weight oz to lbs. This is only 1.5 lbs, which would be ~5-6%, making it more akin the ABV of a beer. Same caveat that it would have probably been lower due to the unfermentable sugars.

kevinmchugh 2021-08-19 13:39:07 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I'm reading 24oz (1.5lbs) of honey in 1.125 gallons of water

cmrdporcupine 2021-08-19 12:54:20 +0000 UTC [ - ]

It depends on how much honey you use.

danwills 2021-08-19 14:02:22 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Which yeast you use could be very important too!: Different yeasts "pack up shop" during fermentation at different levels of ethanol. It's their own waste-product, that humans love, that stops them, but some types of yeast can put up with much higher levels than others! (though there are other factors too like Ph/pressure/mineralisation/etc).

Some yeast strains keep fermenting to (tolerate) a much higher ethanol percent than others, and the result of these more 'vigorous' yeasts is generally a 'dryer' result in brewing terms: A less 'sweet' result because all the sugars have been 'dried' out (ie roughly, consumed and converted to ethanol). This is not the only axis to think about here though! For mead to be 'sweet' in the end it either has to use a yeast that gives-up (for that much sugar) and hope that nothing else can live in there (not a bad bet for partially-fermented-honey actually), or to be sweetened after-the-fact (probably more common in modern 'Mead' products).

Fermentation involving a community of microorganisms (not just yeast) can often end up far dryer (especially given the time-frames they talk about in the article)! Many bugs can consume the 'waste' products that each other makes, and this variety can create enzymatically-linked cascades of molecular conversion-in-phases that can result in all sorts of unexpected "processing" of the "raw" molecules in the brew, including the hops components (if beer) and I'd think all those spices in traditional mead-recipes were probably undergoing some transformations too! Fascinating!

robarker 2021-08-19 14:14:25 +0000 UTC [ - ]

To think that the ingredients are adapted from 1393. I am looking forward to this modern adaptation of Bochet.

Darmody 2021-08-19 12:24:59 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I think it's time to make some mead. It's been years since last time.

dmead 2021-08-19 12:36:29 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Almost 39 years by my watch.

CivBase 2021-08-19 13:40:37 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> Instead of using honey I’d extracted and strained the modern way, however, I crushed some comb taken from a colony that had unfortunately not survived winter—the bees’ lasting legacy would be to provide honey close to what was available in the 14th century, including the occasional stray leg or wing.

Sounds like this stuff really is the bee's knees.

CountDrewku 2021-08-19 13:18:58 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Stopped reading as soon as she used the term "mansplaining". I can't take anyone who uses that term seriously. How about just write about the mead instead of trying to fit in with modern wokeness. If men are that bad maybe you shouldn't be using a recipe one wrote?

This woman appears to have a massive chip on her shoulder.

Edit: Oh whoops I forgot being sexist towards men is fine. If i swapped in a similar derogatory term for this woman that should be ok as well right? Yay DOUBLE STANDARDS!

the_third_wave 2021-08-19 13:04:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> The first and only complete recipe for the drink—and the primary source for modern recreations—turns up in 1393, in what might be considered a manual of mansplaining.

Really? Mansplaining in the 14th century? Is that how historical subjects are going to be treated now?

> An anonymous French writer penned an exhaustive guide to etiquette, moral conduct, and the practical concerns of a young bride, from choosing servants to throwing feasts: Le Ménagier de Paris (The Good Wife’s Guide). “It’s a ridiculous book,” says Verberg. “It’s micromanagement. I would not have wanted to be his wife.”

Nor would she (or he) have wanted you as her husband (or wife), she (he) would possibly not even have recognised you are a marriage-worthy candidate. Times change, attitudes change, mores and morals change, that is what makes history so interesting. Knee-jerk virtue signalling is not a sign of a good historian.

Read Machiavelli's The Prince for another detailed manual on how to behave, in this case on how to become an effective prince. Was Machiavelli mansplaining as well, seeing as how he wrote the book to instruct another male?

Let history be history and study it for what it is, the past which eventually led to the present. Rest assured that once we are history many of our cultural traits will seem strange as well. Rest assured that what is considered virtuous now will be considered something totally different in a few centuries - if not a few decades.

Also, stop using labels like mansplaining, it adds nothing to the discourse and only leads to polarisation of the 'he is not in my camp' type.

JasonFruit 2021-08-19 13:30:50 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I've read portions of that book, and the description is not inapt. It's a man of late middle age explaining to his young (14 iirc) wife _every painful feature of her duties_ in excruciating detail and with perfect self-concern, in a way that is not typical of the way wives are addressed and marriage handled in other works I've read from the time. I found it hard not to dislike the author intensely, which was not my reaction to other medieval writing at all.

kingbirdy 2021-08-19 13:39:38 +0000 UTC [ - ]

> Knee-jerk virtue signalling is not a sign of a good historian

The author isn't and never claimed to be a historian. Their bio on Atlas Obscura says "I'm a senior editor and writer at Atlas Obscura, bee steward, mead maker and veteran of karaoke in Antarctica."

mnd999 2021-08-19 13:59:53 +0000 UTC [ - ]

It seems you missed the whole point of an actually pretty interesting article and wrote a frankly boring rant about one word that seemingly triggered you.

Probably better not to bother next time.

sandworm101 2021-08-19 13:39:10 +0000 UTC [ - ]

1393

If the new bride (14yo) can read such a book then she is not a peasant. If the family owns a book then they are several tiers up again. Anyone reading this book therefore has at least one servant. If they do, that servant may well be a child even younger than the new bride (12yo). Such a person definitely cannot read. This is a book for the master or lady of a 14th century household speaking to their servant. Mansplaining is expected.

barneygale 2021-08-19 14:12:42 +0000 UTC [ - ]

What makes you think mansplaining didn't exist in the 14th century? I'd expect it to be /more/ prevalent than today.

CountDrewku 2021-08-19 13:20:18 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Yeah I quit reading as soon as she used "mansplaining". Not the sort of article I wanted to read.

kevinmchugh 2021-08-19 13:32:34 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Replace it with "patronizing" and try again

CrazyPyroLinux 2021-08-19 13:51:15 +0000 UTC [ - ]

That should be the job of "a senior editor and writer"

Account123481-x 2021-08-19 14:27:33 +0000 UTC [ - ]

if you are that closed minded why read it at all?

CrazyPyroLinux 2021-08-19 16:37:05 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I read it, and am not close-minded. I just don't feel the need to make excuses for poor writing.

TechBro8615 2021-08-19 13:59:36 +0000 UTC [ - ]

I'm about as anti-PC as they come, but to me this passage is not attempting to criticize Medieval culture by framing it within modern PC context. Instead, it reads like the inverse – it's making light of modern PC culture by framing it within Medieval context.

eutectic 2021-08-19 12:41:55 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Sounds like a waste of good honey.

CivBase 2021-08-19 13:38:56 +0000 UTC [ - ]

Sounds like you've never had mead before.